"The Matrix" (De)Appreciation Thread

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical implications and cultural significance of "The Matrix" film series, particularly in relation to concepts of reality, consumerism, and existential thought. Participants explore the relevance of the movie's themes, including the idea of a fabricated reality and its connections to Zen Buddhism and philosophical skepticism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Philosophical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the notion of a fabricated reality is irrelevant, suggesting that it does not change one's lived experience or understanding of existence.
  • Others propose that the film reflects modern consumerism, likening corporate influence to the enslavement depicted in the movie.
  • A participant references Descartes' philosophical arguments about reality and challenges the validity of proving or disproving the existence of a fabricated reality.
  • One viewpoint suggests that "The Matrix" serves as a modern interpretation of ancient Zen Buddhist ideas, emphasizing the paradox of reality and free will.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the ability to prove the existence of "The Matrix," while acknowledging that the inability to disprove it does not validate the concept.
  • Some contributions explore the potential for technology to create a simulated reality, drawing parallels with other science fiction narratives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the relevance or implications of the movie's themes. Some find the ideas presented in "The Matrix" compelling, while others dismiss them as irrelevant or overly simplistic.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various philosophical concepts and cultural critiques, but there is no resolution to the differing interpretations of the film's significance or its underlying messages.

  • #31
Originally posted by Mentat
True. And yet, I don't see how that answers the "free will" question. Yes, you could make all of the people's actions be programmed, and set; but, if that were so, no one would ever leave the Matrix (the agents wouldn't let them, and they (the people) would have no "will" to try it).

But users' idiosyncratic input historoies aren't programmed into VR simulations. What is programmed are the VR responses to possible inputs. This is precisely why a VR program that was as good as the Matrix would run into combinatorial explosion while trying to figure out how to respond to the user. There are just too many things that users can do, and the program has to react to all of them convincingly.

Also, how does one explain the fact that Neo bled (in the real world) after having hit the ground in the simulation? That questions been bothering me for a while.

That I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of feedback mechanism that the brain could use to cause internal bleeding if the brain was convinced that there was, in fact, bleeding. [?]
 
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  • #32
Originally posted by Psychodelirium
But users' idiosyncratic input historoies aren't programmed into VR simulations. What is programmed are the VR responses to possible inputs. This is precisely why a VR program that was as good as the Matrix would run into combinatorial explosion while trying to figure out how to respond to the user. There are just too many things that users can do, and the program has to react to all of them convincingly.

Do you mean that a computer has to be ready to handle all possible actions at any given time? This was my point, and I just don't see how it could be done. But, then again, I guess future technologies will allow for something like that.

That I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of feedback mechanism that the brain could use to cause internal bleeding if the brain was convinced that there was, in fact, bleeding. [?]

Well, actually, it would have to (somehow) sever many layers of his flesh.
 

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