Ralph Nader's Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us

[BenVitale]

Ralph Nader's “Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us”

Ralph Nader's “Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us” is his recent book.

THE BOOK : it is described as a "fictional vision", a "practical utopia."

Read the good reviews: NEWS RELEASE

Ralph Nader asks:

What if a cadre of superrich individuals tried to become a driving force in America to organize and institutionalize the interests of the citizens of this troubled nation? What if some of America's most powerful individuals decided it was time to fix our government and return the power to the people? What if they focused their power on unionizing Wal-Mart? What if a national political party were formed with the sole purpose of advancing clean elections? What if these seventeen superrich individuals decided to galvanize a movement for alternative forms of energy that will effectively clean up the environment? What if together they took on corporate goliaths and Congress to provide the necessities of life and advance the solutions so long left on the shelf by an avaricious oligarchy? What could happen?

Youtube video "ONLY THE SUPER-RICH CAN SAVE US"

I noticed that Ralph Nader is saying nice things about the kind of people (the billionaires) you'd expect him to despise.

I'm disapointed with Ralph Nader.

Please share your thoughts.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think that Nader should have retired from public life after reforming the auto industry. He and Jimmy Carter seem to have spoiled with age.

 

[Cyrus]

lol, "after reforming the auto industry" ...not quite

 

[nismaratwork]

lol, "after reforming the auto industry" ...not quite

Just to be clear, I was being deeply sarcastic, and the reference to spoilage has to do with "peanut" references with Carter. I'm not a fan of either fellow, but to stick to the OP, let's just say I'm no fan of Ralph Nader.

 

[Proton Soup]

alright now, Carter ain't all bad. Habitat is a solid organization.

 

[nismaratwork]

alright now, Carter ain't all bad. Habitat is a solid organization.

Agreed, and I won't thread-jack with the issues I have against Carter. Nader has done some good things too, but there is a big element of "what have you done for me lately", and with Nader especially, "What have you DONE TO us lately" in regards to the 2000 election. Spin that however he wants, had he been absent from the ticket there is a better than even chance that W. would never have seen the presidency.

 

[Cyrus]

Just to be clear, I was being deeply sarcastic, and the reference to spoilage has to do with "peanut" references with Carter. I'm not a fan of either fellow, but to stick to the OP, let's just say I'm no fan of Ralph Nader.

Gotcha

 

[nismaratwork]

Gotcha

Good... I can imagine any engineer having palpitations when the "Nader brought us seat belts" argument is made. I don't want to kill members in good standing of PF with a misunderstanding.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Just to be clear, I was being deeply sarcastic, and the reference to spoilage has to do with "peanut" references with Carter.

Good heavens! I can scarcely remember when I last heard a Carter/peanut wisecrack. I think I may have been wearing feetie pajamas.

 

[nismaratwork]

Good heavens! I can scarcely remember when I last heard a Carter/peanut wisecrack. I think I may have been wearing feetie pajamas.

Are you somehow insulting feetie pajamas? I WILL NOT STAND idly by and hear them slandered... but yeah, the "peanut farmer" thing is older than I am.


Well... not older, but.. oh hell, you young'uns these days, and whatnot! grumble grumble...

 

[ThomasT]

I'm disappointed with Ralph Nader.

He's asked some questions, and presented a hypothesis. But of course the super rich and powerful aren't going to campaign against the very conditions which allowed them to become super rich and powerful.

In a country which has, effectively, only one major political party (the 'Republican-Democtrat' party -- an "avaricious oligarchy" in Nader's words) which advocates primarily for the rights of big money interests, it isn't surprising that a man like Nader, who's spent his life advocating for the rights of the common people, is marginalized and ridiculed.

The US populace is generally complacent and apathetic wrt civic affairs. Nader's primary message is that positive, progressive change can be effected through mass movements. It isn't a popular message because it requires a bit of work.

 

[nismaratwork]

He's asked some questions, and presented a hypothesis. But of course the super rich and powerful aren't going to campaign against the very conditions which allowed them to become super rich and powerful.

In a country which has, effectively, only one major political party (the 'Republican-Democtrat' party -- an "avaricious oligarchy" in Nader's words) which advocates primarily for the rights of big money interests, it isn't surprising that a man like Nader, who's spent his life advocating for the rights of the common people, is marginalized and ridiculed.

The US populace is generally complacent and apathetic wrt civic affairs. Nader's primary message is that positive, progressive change can be effected through mass movements. It isn't a popular message because it requires a bit of work.

Life, and the irony of his role in 2000 has made him a marginal figure, deserving of mockery.

 

[Proton Soup]

Life, and the irony of his role in 2000 has made him a marginal figure, deserving of mockery.

ross perot was a spoiler for clinton, too.

if anything gets me about nader, it's his being a child of privilege, only to go on to a career of pretending to be the champion of the common man.

 

[nismaratwork]

ross perot was a spoiler for clinton, too.

if anything gets me about nader, it's his being a child of privilege, only to go on to a career of pretending to be the champion of the common man.

Ross Perot was a gift from god to comedians, who merely happened to be a spoiler. Your point about Nader is a good one, especially because he still thinks and acts with the limited vision of someone who hasn't seen beyond their privilege.

 

[talk2glenn]

He's asked some questions, and presented a hypothesis. But of course the super rich and powerful aren't going to campaign against the very conditions which allowed them to become super rich and powerful.

In a country which has, effectively, only one major political party (the 'Republican-Democtrat' party -- an "avaricious oligarchy" in Nader's words) which advocates primarily for the rights of big money interests, it isn't surprising that a man like Nader, who's spent his life advocating for the rights of the common people, is marginalized and ridiculed.

The US populace is generally complacent and apathetic wrt civic affairs. Nader's primary message is that positive, progressive change can be effected through mass movements. It isn't a popular message because it requires a bit of work.

Is this intended to be self-parody?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Life, and the irony of his role in 2000 has made him a marginal figure, deserving of mockery.

Yep. There can be no forgiveness for his role in 2000. Look what it has cost us!

 

[nismaratwork]

Yep. There can be no forgiveness for his role in 2000. Look what it has cost us!

Too true!

 

[Proton Soup]

democracy be damned!

 

[ThomasT]

Life, and the irony of his role in 2000 has made him a marginal figure, deserving of mockery.

I agree that the 2000 presidential election was a mockery, but not because of Nader's participation.

I consider his life to be exemplary in many ways. Is there some evidence to the contrary?

... (Nader) still thinks and acts with the limited vision of someone who hasn't seen beyond their privilege.

In what way(s)? Example(s)?

if anything gets me about nader, it's his being a child of privilege, only to go on to a career of pretending to be the champion of the common man.

Why you believe that?

There can be no forgiveness for his role in 2000. Look what it has cost us!

His role was that he ran for president. Which was his right. What there can be no forgiveness for are the actions of the media and the major parties which effectively screened him out of any possible contention, and a Congress that shouldn't have acquiesced to the invasion of Iraq in the first place, and should have begun impeachment proceedings against Bush et al. when that administration's deceit and questionable practices became evident. But instead of focusing on that (or the fact that the Democrats could have won the election had they mobilized even a tiny percentage of the tens of millions of potential voters who chose not to vote -- not that things would have been significantly different if the Dems had won), people, predictably, and nonsensically, point at Nader's candidacy.

Anyway, for those who want to take the position that Nader's candidacy was the primary factor determining Bush's election, then how many votes did Nader take away from Gore, how many from Bush, and how do you know?

Is this intended to be self-parody?

Is there something you wanted say about Nader, or his latest 'literary' offering?

 

[lisab]

Yep. There can be no forgiveness for his role in 2000. Look what it has cost us!

But had Gore won his *own state*, he'd have won the election. He just rand a lousy campaign, Nader was the final straw.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But had Gore won his *own state*, he'd have won the election. He just rand a lousy campaign, Nader was the final straw.

Yes, but Nader knew he could throw the election to Bush. He knowingly helped that ******** to win.

Were he really the public servant he claims to be, he would have thrown his support behind Gore. The only plus: Were it not for eight years of Bush Jr., Obama may have never been elected. So in a way, we have Nader to thank for Obama. Of course, it was two wars and a collapsed economy later that we finally got Obama... What do they say about closing the bard door after the horses already got out?

 

[BenVitale]

Thanks Thomas,

I'd like us to focus on the messages and the intentions of Ralph Nader's book "Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us."

Does he think he's still an electable candidate?

In his book -- I've only read the book reviews -- he talks about the "Meliorists".
So I searched on the web for a clear definition:

Meliorism

Meliorism (politics)

But, I'm still not sure what Nader is referring to.

Here's a review of the book in the Wall Street Journal

And, Bitterly Books is undertaking a chapter-by-chapter review of Ralph Nader's work

 

[nismaratwork]

But had Gore won his *own state*, he'd have won the election. He just rand a lousy campaign, Nader was the final straw.

Yeah, and ask me how I feel about Al Gore, but being a "final straw" is still part of the problem! I don't care what role it played; as has been mentioned before he stood on principle to the detriment of the entire country (and arguably world) for 8 years. Al Gore should also be kneecapped, but this isn't an Al Gore thread.

ThomasT: After 2000, he ran again... I'd call that limited vision given his role in 2000. Beyond that, how do you figure that his life has been exemplary?

 

[Proton Soup]

http://bitterlybooks.blogspot.com/search/label/Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us

TRIADS AND BFLs

looks like it's simply tedious

but this amuses me: http://bitterlybooks.blogspot.com/2009/11/peter-lewis-guide-to-soliciting.html

 

[Proton Soup]

oh, and the assault on Wal-Mart is priceless, given this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-15/the-liberal-sweatshop/?cid=hp:mainpromo6

The nonprofit Fund for Public Interest Inc. was set up in 1982 as the fundraising arm of the network of Public Interest Research Groups, which was founded by Ralph Nader. It deploys legions of door-to-door and street canvassers—and once counted a young Barack Obama as one of its New York City organizers—to solicit contributions for the Human Rights Campaign, the Sierra Club, Environment America, and other groups that together spend millions of dollars each year lobbying Congress.

"They’re the Wal-Mart of nonprofits in every way imaginable. They basically look at the next generation of social change as the next source of cheap labor."

Those organizations often battle with deep-pocketed corporations; the money raised by canvassers is an important source of funds. In many cases, however, the employees collecting those donations made an hourly rate that worked out to less than minimum wage.

 

[nismaratwork]

Really, I hate when people don't realize they're long past their "shelf-life". It's this crap that makes genuine complaints and concern labeled as "fringe".

 

[ThomasT]

Hi Ben -- ok, back on topic. You asked:

Does he think he's still an electable candidate?

Did he ever think that? Who knows? My guess is that he saw his candidacies as a very large forum for his message (however one might want to characterize it).

From the Wikipedia article on Nader, linked to below:

In the 2006 documentary An Unreasonable Man, Nader describes how he was unable to get the views of his public interest groups heard in Washington, even by the Clinton Administration. Nader cites this as one of the primary reasons that he decided to actively run in the 2000 election as candidate of the Green Party, which had been formed in the wake of his 1996 campaign.

In his book -- I've only read the book reviews -- he talks about the "Meliorists".
So I searched on the web for a clear definition:

But, I'm still not sure what Nader is referring to.

From the first Wikipedia link you provided:

Meliorism is an idea in metaphysical thinking holding that progress is a real concept leading to an improvement of the world. It holds that humans can, through their interference with processes that would otherwise be natural, produce an outcome which is an improvement over the aforementioned natural one.

The 'natural process' in the above quote might be considered analogous to the status quo in US politics. Is it an "avaricious oligarchy", as Nader calls it?
Anyway, the idea is that the current status quo can be improved upon via increased participation and activism. In his book, he (apparently, I haven't read it either) explores the idea of collective progressive activism by a group of super-rich and super-powerful people.

Meliorism is somewhat synonymous with progressivism. Nader, while conservative in certain ways, is a progressivist. Hence, "the Meliorists".

Rob Long's review is genuinely funny. My guess is that not very many people will read Nader's 'novel' -- at least, not any time real soon (700 pages?? -- what was he thinking?).

Is the motivation behind Nader's novel vaguely reminiscent of, and in some ways similar to, the apparent motivation behind B.F. Skinner's 'novel', Walden Two? I don't know, but both these guys seem to be idealists who spent the bulk of their lives working on the basic mechanics of their chosen professions. They both think that the human condition, in general, can be improved, and they both present a 'vision' wrt how that might be accomplished.
---------------------------------------

After 2000, he ran again... I'd call that limited vision given his role in 2000. Beyond that, how do you figure that his life has been exemplary?

http://www.salon.com/bc/1999/01/26bc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

How do you figure that he should be mocked? What, exactly, is "deserving of mockery"? Do you know some 'dirt' wrt his personal life? If it's just the 2000 election thing, then, if he had dropped out, then I'd be mocking him for that. If it's that he's run again, then I have to suppose that you just disagree with some, or maybe all, of what he says and what he says he stands for. If so, then what is it that you disagree with?

Ok, then there's this ... er, 'novel'. Well, I didn't say that I thought the guy was perfect, just that, in general, I consider him to have led an exemplary life.

 

[ThomasT]

Youtube video "ONLY THE SUPER-RICH CAN SAVE US"

I noticed that Ralph Nader is saying nice things about the kind of people (the billionaires) you'd expect him to despise.

I'm disapointed with Ralph Nader.

Please share your thoughts.

Ben, just watched the video. (I'd only read snippets of the reviews before.) The rationale of the book, as Nader states it, makes sense to me. It didn't seem like he was saying anything particularly 'nice' about the super-rich. Just that they're in a position (due to their wealth and networks) to bring about some positive changes, and that enough of them seem to be interested in some sort of progressive agenda that, collectively, a very small percentage of very rich people (just 17 in the book) could do just that. Each of the people he mentions has some particular area that they're most interested in improving.

One interesting point was that had George Soros (or whoever) bought enough airtime to saturate the mass media with the 'anti-Iraq-invasion' message of a few hundred respected military and civilian officials, then it might have tipped the balance of opinion (wrt both the populace and the Congress) solidly against the invasion.

It remains to be seen whether any of this will lead to a super-rich, progressive 'cabal'.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect Nader to despise the super-rich just because they're super-rich.

I'm curious as to what exactly you're disappointed with.

 

[nismaratwork]

ThomasT: I have no special knowledge about the man, and nothing approaching insider info; I believe what we have here is a difference of opinion between us, and one that is unlikely to be settled. We are probably aware of the same facts, and privy to the public details of his life; you like it, I don't. We COULD debate this, but that seems like it would be too far off topic. I see him as a starry-eyed crusader who has had far less impact than he is credited with, and more ego than he deserves. He strikes me as the type to argue the "the constitution is not a suicide pact" concept to death, much as he stuck to his guns re: W. Bush. Was he right that Gore should have done better... yeah, definitely. Could he have withdrawn and changed 2000-2008... probably. Nothing he's done in life prior to that can possibly make up for a contributing role in W's presidency... and this novel as you so rightly put it, is laughable.

That is what I mock: the disparity between his espoused ideals and the most significant role he's played in American history.

 

[ThomasT]

nismaratwork,

I have no special knowledge about the man, and nothing approaching insider info; I believe what we have here is a difference of opinion between us, and one that is unlikely to be settled. We are probably aware of the same facts, and privy to the public details of his life; you like it, I don't. We COULD debate this, but that seems like it would be too far off topic. I see him as a starry-eyed crusader who has had far less impact than he is credited with, and more ego than he deserves. He strikes me as the type to argue the "the constitution is not a suicide pact" concept to death, much as he stuck to his guns re: W. Bush. Was he right that Gore should have done better... yeah, definitely. Could he have withdrawn and changed 2000-2008... probably. Nothing he's done in life prior to that can possibly make up for a contributing role in W's presidency... and this novel as you so rightly put it, is laughable.

Ok, points taken, and yes we should respect the OP and stick to the book. I didn't say that I thought the novel itself, or its premise, was necessarily laughable. It's just so ... large. The rationale makes sense to me. I've changed my mind wrt the possibility of a tiny percentage of super-rich people forming a progressivist 'cabal'. It's not as outlandish as it, at first, seems. Or maybe it is. I don't know.

I don't get your association of Nader with "the constitution is not a suicide pact" notion.

That is what I mock: the disparity between his espoused ideals and the most significant role he's played in American history.

If he had dropped out of the 2000 race, then there would have been a, mockable, disparity between his espoused ideals and his actions. But he didn't, so there wasn't -- at least not wrt that election. Bush got elected because of a mockable Florida vote collection and count, a mockable Supreme Court decision, a mockable electorate, and a mockable Democratic campaign. To think that Nader should have dropped out is, really, quite missing the point.

-------------------------

... Nader knew he could throw the election to Bush. He knowingly helped that ******** to win.

Were he really the public servant he claims to be, he would have thrown his support behind Gore.
...

It's precisely because of who he is (a real public servant), and what his whole life has been about, that he couldn't have dropped out of the race and "thrown his support behind Gore" (the, purported, lesser of two evils).