Rationalising Surds: Get the Answers You Need - Daniel

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rationalization of surds, specifically focusing on simplifying expressions involving square roots and determining integer values related to inequalities. Participants are addressing a problem presented by Daniel and exploring methods to find values for variables \(x\) and \(y\).

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Daniel attempts to simplify \(\sqrt{63}\) and expresses uncertainty about how to proceed with the problem.
  • One participant suggests using the inequality \(x^2 \le 63 < (x+1)^2\) to find \(x\), concluding that \(x = 7\).
  • Another participant reiterates the same approach for finding \(x\) and attempts to find \(y\) but does not clarify the reasoning behind their conclusion.
  • A participant points out an error regarding the nature of \(y\), indicating that it should be an integer rather than a natural number, and proposes that \(y\) must be negative.
  • This participant further develops the inequality for \(y\) and concludes that \(y = -8\), but does not confirm whether this conclusion is accepted by others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of \(y\) and whether it should be considered an integer or a natural number. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the final values of \(x\) and \(y\) as there is no consensus on the conclusions drawn.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the definitions of natural numbers and integers, as well as the implications of squaring negative values in inequalities. The discussion does not resolve these aspects.

danielw
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Hi All

This is my question.

View attachment 5871

I don't know how to begin working on it.

I already tried simplifying the first part to: $$ \sqrt{63} = \sqrt{7 \cdot 3^3}=\sqrt{7}\sqrt{3^2}=3\sqrt{7}$$

But this doesn't get me closer to answering the first part of the question, and I think the same technique will apply to the second part. I would be grateful for some guidance!

Thanks.

Daniel
 

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To find $x$, consider:

$$x^2\le63<(x+1)^2$$

So, think of the perfect squares that will fit the bill here:

$$7^2\le63<8^2$$

Thus, $x=7$...can you now find $y$?
 
MarkFL said:
To find $x$, consider:

$$x^2\le63<(x+1)^2$$

So, think of the perfect squares that will fit the bill here:

$$7^2\le63<8^2$$

Thus, $x=7$...can you now find $y$?

So since $$y^2=-(51)$$, $$y$$ is between 7 ($$7^2=49$$) and 8 ($$8^2=64$$), $$y=7$$?
 
The question for finding $y$ has an error in it...we are looking for an integer rather than a natural number. Natural numbers are denoted by $\mathbb{N}$ whereas integers are denoted by $\mathbb{Z}$.

We observe that $y$ must be a negative number (do you see why?), and so we can write:

$$(y+1)^2\le51<y^2$$

Since all 3 values are negative, we change the direction of the inequality when squaring.

And if we write:

$$7^2\le51<8^2$$

We may then write:

$$y^2=8^2$$

And we take the negative root here, to obtain:

$$y=-8$$

Does this make sense?
 

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