Recursive defintion of the product notation

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter neutrino
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Notation Product
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the recursive definition of the product notation, specifically the notation \(\prod_{k=1}^{n}a_k\). Participants explore the implications of defining the product starting from an index of 0 and the reasoning behind this choice, as well as comparisons to summation notation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a recursive definition of the product notation starting from \(k=1\) and questions the necessity of defining \(\prod_{k=1}^{0}a_k\) as 1.
  • Another participant suggests that defining the empty product as 1 is useful to avoid special cases and maintains equivalence for upper bounds greater than 0.
  • A later reply highlights that the inductive step remains consistent regardless of the starting index, reinforcing the validity of the definition that includes the empty product.
  • One participant requests examples of when this definition is useful and questions why summation notation does not follow a similar pattern by defining \(\sum_{1}^{0} = 0\).
  • Another participant confirms that in summation notation, the sum from 1 to 0 is indeed considered 0.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of defining the product notation starting from 0, with some supporting the definition and others questioning it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the comparison to summation notation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions of the product and summation notations may lead to different interpretations, particularly concerning the treatment of empty products and sums. The discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions or preferences for these definitions.

neutrino
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
2
I'm asked to define recursively (definition by induction) [itex]\prod_{k=1}^{n}a_k[/itex]

Well, I wrote down the following:

[tex]\prod_{k=1}^{1}a_k = a_1[/tex]

Assuming [itex]\prod_{k=1}^{n}a_k[/itex] has been defined for some [itex]n\geq1[/itex],

[tex]\prod_{k=1}^{n+1}a_k = a_{n+1}\prod_{k=1}^{n}a_k[/tex]

A similar method was used to define the summation notation in the text, so I used it here.

But the answer given at the back is

[tex]\prod_{k=1}^{0}a_k = 1; \prod_{k=1}^{n+1}a_k = a_{n+1}\prod_{k=1}^{n}a_k[/tex]

I don't understand why the index goes from 1 to 0, and why they have defined it to be 1. Please clarify this.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
A little background - in Quantum mechanics a massless particle is needed to carry a force, the photon carries the electric force and W and Z particles carry the forces that hold atoms together.
It is a somewhat pedantic point. When the upper limit goes from n=0 to n=1 (induction step), you need 1 for the n=0 product to get a1 for the n=1 product.
 
The reason they define the product starting from k=1 to 0 is to define the empty product to be 1. This is a useful definition, as it avoids many special cases. It is clearly an equivalent definition to yours for all upper bounds greater than 0, since their inductive step is the same and by their definition,

[tex]\prod_{k = 1}^1 a_k = a_1 \prod_{k = 1}^0 a_k = a_1 \cdot 1 = a_1.[/tex]
 
Thanks for the replies. Could you give me a simple example where this definition will be useful? Also, why was not the summation notation defined to be [itex]\sum_{1}^{0} = 0[/itex]? [As implied in my first post, [itex]a_1[/itex] was defined as the sum from 1 to 1.]
 
In summation notation sum from 1 to 0 is considered 0.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K