Recursive sets and recursive numbers: relationship?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between computable sets and computable numbers, exploring definitions and potential correspondences between the two concepts. Participants examine whether a computable number can be considered as belonging to a computable set and the implications of such a relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a computable number corresponds to a computable set, but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of this assertion and the meaning of "corresponds to."
  • Another participant agrees that a computable number would belong in a computable set, but this claim is challenged.
  • A different participant clarifies that a computable number does not necessarily belong to a computable set, noting that computable numbers can be real numbers, while computable sets consist of natural numbers.
  • This participant provides an example, stating that while pi is computable, it is not part of a computable set, and discusses the correspondence between computable sets and computable real numbers.
  • References to "Gödel, Escher, Bach" are made, suggesting a connection to the concepts of primitive recursive functions and recursive functions, although the relevance to the original question is questioned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between computable sets and computable numbers. There are competing views regarding whether a computable number can belong to a computable set, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about definitions and the implications of correspondences between sets and numbers. The discussion includes references to specific examples and literature, but does not resolve the underlying questions posed.

nomadreid
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Given the two standard definitions
(1) A computable set is a set for which there is an algorithm which terminates after a finite amount of time and correctly decides whether or not a given number belongs to the set.
(2) A computable number is a number which can be approximated to any degree of accuracy by a computable function
I am tempted to say that a computable number is one that corresponds to a computable set, but
(a) I am not sure this is correct, and
(b) even if it is correct, I am not sure what "corresponds to" would mean. There are ways to make any subset of the natural numbers correspond to a real number, but I am not sure whether these would be appropriate.
Thanks.
 
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It would make sense that a computable number belongs in a computable set. I would agree.
 
Thanks, +Jace90+, but that's not quite right. A computer number does not necessarily belong in a computable set -- that is, it doesn't have to be a member of a computable set. A computable set is a set of natural numbers, whereas a computable number need not be a natural number. For example, pi is computable, but is not in a computable set. The idea is that each computable set of natural numbers corresponds to a single computable real number. {1,3,5} might correspond to 0.010101 or something like that.Since both the set of the computable numbers and the set of the computable sets are countable, there exists a 1-1 correspondence, but would this correspondence correspond to a section of an explicit one-to-one correspondence between ℝ and P(ℕ) that was not simply set up artificially in order to work backwards? This was the intent of my question; sorry for not making it clearer the first time.
 
Check out "Gödel, Escher, Bach" for a long discussion of FLoop vs. BLoop.
 
Thanks, Svein. I read the book a long time ago (in fact, I have met Hofstadter, and I know well the official translator of GEB to Russian): it's very good, and the Floop (primitive recursive functions) and Bloop (recursive functions) programs are a nice way to make his point that Gloop (a program to solve the halting problem) is impossible, but I am afraid that I do not see that this answers my question. Could you be more explicit?
 
nomadreid said:
Thanks, Svein. I read the book a long time ago (in fact, I have met Hofstadter, and I know well the official translator of GEB to Russian): it's very good, and the Floop (primitive recursive functions) and Bloop (recursive functions) programs are a nice way to make his point that Gloop (a program to solve the halting problem) is impossible, but I am afraid that I do not see that this answers my question. Could you be more explicit?
Sorry, I just thought I should point you in that direction. Since you already have read it, I don't have anything else to add (my thesis was in function algebras, not in mathematical logic).
 
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