Reduction of ester and amide with LiAlH4

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reduction of esters and amides using lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4) and related topics such as protecting groups and alternative reducing agents. Participants explore the potential outcomes of reducing both functional groups and the feasibility of selectively targeting one over the other.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires whether LiAlH4 will reduce both an ester and an amide in a molecule or just one of them.
  • Some participants suggest that both reductions are possible, but do not clarify under what conditions this occurs.
  • There is a question about the meaning of APTS in the context of esterification, with a participant providing its French name and formula.
  • Another participant raises a question about the use of protecting groups for amides and whether methods like ethylene glycol or the Corey-Seebach reaction can be applied to selectively protect one group while reducing the other.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the effectiveness of protecting groups for amides, with one participant stating that they have not seen the Corey-Seebach reaction applied to esters or amides.
  • It is mentioned that lithium borohydride in methanol is reactive towards esters but less so towards secondary amides.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the effectiveness of various methods for selectively reducing esters and amides, and multiple competing views remain regarding the use of protecting groups and reducing agents.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the reactivity of different functional groups and the effectiveness of various protecting strategies, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

duchuy
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Hi, I am trying to solve number 8. At 7, I have a molecule that contains both an amide and ester function. So when I use LiAlH4, will I reduce both the ester to alcohol and the amide to secondary amine? Or just the ester?
Thank you so much for your help!
 
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Both are possible. What does APTS stand for in the esterification step?
 
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chemisttree said:
Both are possible. What does APTS stand for in the esterification step?
I'm not quite sure for the name in english but in french it's acide paratoluène sulfonique. The formula is :
H3C-Ph-HSO3.
I also have a question regarding protecting groups. In a molecule where I have both a RCOOH, or ester and amide group, will I be able to use ethylene glycol or Corey Seeback reaction to protect one group and reduce only the other non protected group? Or protection only works for ketones and aldehydes?
And if I want to specifically reduce say for example the ester and not the amide, is there a more specific reducing agent that only targets one group and not the other like NaBH3CN?
 
That’s PTSA in English, or pTs-OH or TsOH.
I don’t know of any protecting groups for amides. I don’t think the Corey Seebach reaction would work with either an ester or an amide. I’ve only seen that done on aldehydes. Ethylene glycol will make a glycol ester if you are careful. Glycol esters are very easily hydrolyzed in my experience. In my hands they hydrolyze during aqueous workup. The only Fisher conditions that I’ve ever used to make them were catalyzed with Amberlite resin which didn’t require aqueous workup.
Lithium borohydride-methanol is fairly reactive to esters and not so much for secondary amides.
 
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chemisttree said:
That’s PTSA in English, or pTs-OH or TsOH.
I don’t know of any protecting groups for amides. I don’t think the Corey Seebach reaction would work with either an ester or an amide. I’ve only seen that done on aldehydes. Ethylene glycol will make a glycol ester if you are careful. Glycol esters are very easily hydrolyzed in my experience. In my hands they hydrolyze during aqueous workup. The only Fisher conditions that I’ve ever used to make them were catalyzed with Amberlite resin which didn’t require aqueous workup.
Lithium borohydride-methanol is fairly reactive to esters and not so much for secondary amides.
Thank you so much sir! I love your dedication, and I wish you an amazing new year ahead.
 

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