MHB Regular and not regular Language

  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Language Regular
AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the regularity of languages defined by base representations of natural numbers. A specific example is provided with the set K = {2^i | i ∈ ℕ}, where L_2(K) is regular, represented by the regular expression 10^+, while L_3(K) is claimed to be non-regular. Participants express confusion about how one base can yield a regular language while another does not, prompting inquiries about the use of the pumping lemma for proof. The complexity of the problem is acknowledged, suggesting it may exceed typical coursework expectations in theory of computation. Overall, the conversation highlights the nuances of language regularity in different bases.
mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

If $K$ is a set of natural numbers and $b$ is a natural number greater than $1$, let $$L_b(K)=\{w \mid w \text{ is the representation in base } b \text{ of some number in } K\}$$
Leading $0$s are not allowed in the representation of a number.
For example, $L_2(\{3, 5\})=\{11, 101\}$ and $L_3(\{3, 5\})=\{10, 12\}$.
Give an example of a set $K$ for which $L_2(K)$ is regular but $L_3(K)$ is not regular. Prove that your example works.

I am confused... How can $L_i$ be regular when $L_j$ is not regular? (Wondering)

Could you explain it to me? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

There is a page on CS StackExchange about your question, but it requires some effort to grasp.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

Thank you! (Happy)
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?

So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
 
mathmari said:
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?
Yes.

mathmari said:
So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
The StackExchange page contains a couple of proofs, but I have not studied them carefully. In my opinion, this problem goes somewhat beyond the necessary minimum a student is supposed to take from the theory of computation course. It is more like a challenge problem. Since what I am prepared to give is a "marginal legal advice" (a slogan from a popular American radio show about legal matters), I can't promise further help with this problem.
 
I was reading documentation about the soundness and completeness of logic formal systems. Consider the following $$\vdash_S \phi$$ where ##S## is the proof-system making part the formal system and ##\phi## is a wff (well formed formula) of the formal language. Note the blank on left of the turnstile symbol ##\vdash_S##, as far as I can tell it actually represents the empty set. So what does it mean ? I guess it actually means ##\phi## is a theorem of the formal system, i.e. there is a...

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
24
Views
4K
Replies
11
Views
994
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Back
Top