MHB Regular and not regular Language

  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Language Regular
Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around the regularity of languages defined by base representations of natural numbers. A specific example is provided with the set K = {2^i | i ∈ ℕ}, where L_2(K) is regular, represented by the regular expression 10^+, while L_3(K) is claimed to be non-regular. Participants express confusion about how one base can yield a regular language while another does not, prompting inquiries about the use of the pumping lemma for proof. The complexity of the problem is acknowledged, suggesting it may exceed typical coursework expectations in theory of computation. Overall, the conversation highlights the nuances of language regularity in different bases.
mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

If $K$ is a set of natural numbers and $b$ is a natural number greater than $1$, let $$L_b(K)=\{w \mid w \text{ is the representation in base } b \text{ of some number in } K\}$$
Leading $0$s are not allowed in the representation of a number.
For example, $L_2(\{3, 5\})=\{11, 101\}$ and $L_3(\{3, 5\})=\{10, 12\}$.
Give an example of a set $K$ for which $L_2(K)$ is regular but $L_3(K)$ is not regular. Prove that your example works.

I am confused... How can $L_i$ be regular when $L_j$ is not regular? (Wondering)

Could you explain it to me? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

There is a page on CS StackExchange about your question, but it requires some effort to grasp.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

Thank you! (Happy)
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?

So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
 
mathmari said:
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?
Yes.

mathmari said:
So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
The StackExchange page contains a couple of proofs, but I have not studied them carefully. In my opinion, this problem goes somewhat beyond the necessary minimum a student is supposed to take from the theory of computation course. It is more like a challenge problem. Since what I am prepared to give is a "marginal legal advice" (a slogan from a popular American radio show about legal matters), I can't promise further help with this problem.
 
Hello, I'm joining this forum to ask two questions which have nagged me for some time. They both are presumed obvious, yet don't make sense to me. Nobody will explain their positions, which is...uh...aka science. I also have a thread for the other question. But this one involves probability, known as the Monty Hall Problem. Please see any number of YouTube videos on this for an explanation, I'll leave it to them to explain it. I question the predicate of all those who answer this...
I'm taking a look at intuitionistic propositional logic (IPL). Basically it exclude Double Negation Elimination (DNE) from the set of axiom schemas replacing it with Ex falso quodlibet: ⊥ → p for any proposition p (including both atomic and composite propositions). In IPL, for instance, the Law of Excluded Middle (LEM) p ∨ ¬p is no longer a theorem. My question: aside from the logic formal perspective, is IPL supposed to model/address some specific "kind of world" ? Thanks.

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
24
Views
4K
Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K