Relationship between three planes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationships between three planes represented by a linear system of three equations in three variables. Participants explore various cases of how these planes can intersect or relate to each other, including graphical descriptions and the nature of their solutions. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the three equations are linearly independent, the system has a single solution where the planes intersect at a point.
  • Others argue that if two equations are linearly independent, the system has a solution with one free parameter, leading to a line of intersection, but question whether the third plane could also be parallel or identical to one of the others.
  • A later reply suggests that if all three equations are linearly dependent, the system could have either a solution with two free parameters or no solution, depending on whether the planes are identical or parallel.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the categorization of the cases, particularly regarding whether combinations of planes could lead to different types of intersections.
  • There is a suggestion that a fourth case might exist where the solution includes all points in three-dimensional space, prompting further clarification on the nature of the equations.
  • One participant notes that the rank of the coefficient matrix could lead to four distinct cases based on its value, which may include sub-cases for solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the categorization of the cases or the completeness of the proposed solutions. Multiple competing views remain regarding the relationships between the planes and the nature of their intersections.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the relationships between the planes, the dependence on definitions of linear independence and dependence, and unresolved mathematical steps regarding the categorization of cases.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let an arbitrary linear system of $3$ equations and $3$ variables be given. There are $4$ cases how the planes can be related.
Describe these $4$ cases graphically and describe the set of solutions in each case. I have done the following:

If the three equations are linearly independent, then the system has a single solution.
In this case the three planes described by the equations intersect, since they are neither parallel nor identical.
The intersection of these three planes is a point in space.

If two of the three equations are linearly independent, then the system has a set of solution with one free parameter.
In this case the two independent planes described by the equations intersect, since they are neither parallel nor identical. The third one is either parallel or identical to one of the other ones.
The intersection of these two planes is a line in space.

If all the three equations are linearly dependent, then the system has either a set of solution with two free parameters or no solution (empty set of solutions).
In this case the three planes described by the equations are either identical or parallel.
The intersection of these three planes is either a plane (if the planes are identical) or there is no intersection (if the planes are parallel). Are the four cases correct and complete? Could we improve something? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
Hey! :o

Let an arbitrary linear system of $3$ equations and $3$ variables be given. There are $4$ cases how the planes can be related.
Describe these $4$ cases graphically and describe the set of solutions in each case. I have done the following:

If the three equations are linearly independent, then the system has a single solution.
In this case the three planes described by the equations intersect, since they are neither parallel nor identical.
The intersection of these three planes is a point in space.

Hey mathmari!

The question seems to ask how the planes can be related rather than whether the equations are linearly independent or not. Doesn't it? (Wondering)

For this first case that is that we have 3 planes that intersect in a point.
The solution is indeed a single point in space.

mathmari said:
If two of the three equations are linearly independent, then the system has a set of solution with one free parameter.
In this case the two independent planes described by the equations intersect, since they are neither parallel nor identical. The third one is either parallel or identical to one of the other ones.
The intersection of these two planes is a line in space.

The second case is that we have 3 planes that have exactly one directional vector in common.
Or put otherwise, their normal vectors span a plane. (Nerd)

The solution can indeed be a line.
But isn't it also possible that each combination of 2 planes intersect in different lines?
Or that 2 of the 3 planes are parallel?
In other words, isn't there another possibility for the solution? (Worried)
mathmari said:
If all the three equations are linearly dependent, then the system has either a set of solution with two free parameters or no solution (empty set of solutions).
In this case the three planes described by the equations are either identical or parallel.
The intersection of these three planes is either a plane (if the planes are identical) or there is no intersection (if the planes are parallel).

Third case would be that we have 2 directional vectors in common.
Put otherwise, that their normal vectors are all in the same direction.

That isn't exactly that the three equations are linearly dependent, are they? (Worried)
Isn't it that each pair of the three equations are linearly dependent instead?

The solution is indeed either a plane (all 3 planes identical), or no solution at all (at least 2 planes are parallel and distinct). (Nod)

mathmari said:
Are the four cases correct and complete? Could we improve something?

Shouldn't there be a fourth case?
Or do we consider the 4 different types of solutions the 4 cases? (Wondering)

There is another case though.
Can't we have a solution that includes all points in 3 dimensional space? (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
For this first case that is that we have 3 planes that intersect in a point.
The solution is indeed a single point in space.

So case 1 is that all three planes intersect in one point, and then the solution is the intersection point.
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The second case is that we have 3 planes that have exactly one directional vector in common.
Or put otherwise, their normal vectors span a plane. (Nerd)

The solution can indeed be a line.
But isn't it also possible that each combination of 2 planes intersect in different lines?
Or that 2 of the 3 planes are parallel?
In other words, isn't there another possibility for the solution? (Worried)

So in case 2 you mean that the three planes intersect in one line or in different line? (Wondering)
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Third case would be that we have 2 directional vectors in common.
Put otherwise, that their normal vectors are all in the same direction.

That isn't exactly that the three equations are linearly dependent, are they? (Worried)
Isn't it that each pair of the three equations are linearly dependent instead?

The solution is indeed either a plane (all 3 planes identical), or no solution at all (at least 2 planes are parallel and distinct). (Nod)

In case 3, all three planes are either identical and the intersection is the plane itself or at least two planes are parallel and then there is no intersection.
Klaas van Aarsen said:
There is another case though.
Can't we have a solution that includes all points in 3 dimensional space? (Thinking)

Could you explain to me case 4 further? I haven't really understood that. (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
So in case 2 you mean that the three planes intersect in one line or in different line?

It depends a bit on how we categorize the relationships that the planes can have.
My current interpretation is that for this case the 3 planes have 1 directional vector in common.
That leads to 2 sub cases for the possible solutions.
One where they have a line in common. That is, the intersection of each pair of planes is an identical line.
And one where there is no solution. That is, the pairwise intersections form at least 2 parallel and distinct lines. (Thinking)

mathmari said:
Could you explain to me case 4 further? I haven't really understood that.

The equations do not necessarily form planes.
If all coefficients of an equation are 0, we either have an equation that is always true, or an equation that is always false.
In the first sub case all points in space are solutions to a single equation.
In the second sub case there are no solutions at all to the equation. (Thinking)

The 4 cases correspond to the rank of the matrix of the coefficients.
That rank can be any of {0,1,2,3}, making 4 cases. And each case has sub cases for its solutions. (Thinking)
 
So, do we have the following four cases?

Case 1: There is no intersection. (The system has no solution.)
This happens for the following relationships of the planes:
  • The three planes are parallel but not identical.
  • Two identical planes are parallel to the third plane.
  • Two planes are parallel and the third plane intersects both planes in two parallel lines.
  • All three planes intersect in three different lines.

Case 2: One point intersection. (The system has an unique solution.)
This happens for the following relationship of the planes:
  • All three planes intersect in one point.

Case 3: Intersection line. (The system has infinitely many solutions.)
This happens for the following relationships of the planes:
  • Two planes are identical and the third plane intersects the other two in a line.
  • All three planes intersect in a line.

Case 4: Intersection plane. (The system has infinitely many solutions.)
This happens for the following relationship of the planes:
  • All three planes are identical.
Do you mean these cases? Or have I misunderstood something? (Wondering)
 
You have categorized by solution now and listed the relationships of the planes as sub cases.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? (Wondering)

Additionally it is possible to have an equation like 0x+0y+0z=1, meaning there is no solution.
And we can also have an equation like 0x+0y+0z=0, meaning that any point in space satisfies this equation. (Thinking)
 

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