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News Replacing Money with Tokens of Goodness

  1. Oct 13, 2009 #1

    jambaugh

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    While reading about the evils of money in another thread I had a wonderful idea! We can do away with all that evil money and its evil consequences while maintaining a functional social system. Here is how it works:

    People would receive tokens in proportion to how well they help others. We'll call these Tokens Of Goodness or Tokens of Gratitude or just TOGs for short. This tokens could be then used to reward others who do good things for the token holder. I've attached a rough paper design below but maybe small metal disks would work too.

    How many TOGs a person got would be decided as fairly as possible. The person providing the good deed (cleaning someone's house, helping to build them a car, mow their lawn...) would negotiate with the person receiving the beneficial act and they would decide on a degree of goodness of the act. We'll call this level the Principle Relative Increment of Contributed Ethic or PRICE for short.

    If the good-deed-doer and the good-deed-recipient couldn't decide on a fair PRICE then they look elsewhere. The doer for someone more appreciative to help and the recipient for someone less self righteous about his deed.

    Those receiving the good deeds of others would also have to do good deeds to earn tokens. We dispense with that "Evil Money" and only use TOGs and people would only get what they fairly deserve.

    We could even allow people with many TOG's to lend them to others who, though they are good people, have not yet accumulated enough good deed tokens for some benefit they wish to receive. This lending being a nice thing to do and all the nicer for lending more tokens the lender would negotiate for a percentage of extra TOG's be returned.

    Just to be sure the phrase "no good deed goes unpunished!" remains true, the government might confiscate a percentage of exchanged TOGs to use when there is need for general goodness to be done. They would give these extra TOGs to people for being good enough to serve the public as judges, congressmen or policemen.

    Suggested design for the TOG:
    attachment.php?attachmentid=21117&stc=1&d=1255481714.png

    I always liked the term "capital" used to mean "good" as in "That's a capital idea!" So I suggest we call this Capitalnomics!
    Hmmm... kind of awkward sounding. Maybe some shorter "-ism" form or something...

    Anyway here's a catchy slogan summarizing the ideal:
    "From each according to his benefit! To each according to his service!"

    I know this sounds like another pie in the sky Utopian ideal but I really really think it could work if we all just decided to try it!
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 13, 2009 #2
    I was wondering about taxes.
     
  4. Oct 13, 2009 #3
    Money is not evil, it is a tool. Hammers are not evil, they are tools. It is people who do evil with the tools, not the tools doing the evil.
     
  5. Oct 13, 2009 #4
    I didn't shoot that guy, my gun did.
     
  6. Oct 13, 2009 #5

    Evo

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    Ok this is a system of awards for public service. But what about pay for the job you do everyday for your employer?
     
  7. Oct 13, 2009 #6
    If the Citizens of Togonia could loosen the production of Togs away from the monopolistic Federal Tog Reserve Company some degree of fair play could might ensue.

    Of course, about 20% of the Togians would still end up with 80% of the Togs in short order after having assumed a leadership role in the equitable distribution of Togs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  8. Oct 13, 2009 #7

    Pengwuino

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    This thread was way too long to be a joke yet way too silly to be serious. Ignored pending moderation.
     
  9. Oct 13, 2009 #8

    Bobbywhy

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    jambaugh,

    Seems you have described Robert Trivers' "Reciprocal Altruism". I agree, good idea.
     
  10. Oct 13, 2009 #9
  11. Oct 14, 2009 #10

    jambaugh

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    Why do you insist on excluding my employer from "the public"? Most people I hear speaking of "public good" in critical debate are using their own selective definition of "the public".

    [edit] Remember "the public" is only a collection of private individuals. Also remember that my employer can only pay me what tokens of good are gifted him from "the public" to whom he gives benefit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  12. Oct 14, 2009 #11
    All good people will probably never earn (or accumulate) these TOGs...

    now only if goodness could be priced. You are fundamentally misunderstanding what is "goodness" in your OP IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  13. Oct 14, 2009 #12

    jambaugh

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    No... that system is inefficient. They do not keep track of the level of benefit provided. An auction for exchange of TOG's for benefit is the only means to fairly compare how benevolent one has been.

    I think you are missing the isomorphism mapping that I [tongue in cheek]naively failed to see[/tongue in cheek].
     
  14. Oct 14, 2009 #13

    jambaugh

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    Good is as good does. Piety and righteous indignation are not enough. You give me a car now and you've done good for me. I'm wiling to give you lots of TOG's for that act of goodness. And if I'm not you shouldn't give me the car.

    How do you assess the benefit a person receives if you don't allow him to freely negotiate how many tokens he is willing to grant for receipt of that benefit and if you don't make receipt of that benefit contingent on the granting of tokens?
     
  15. Oct 14, 2009 #14
    If I doing a good dead then I am not looking for anything from you or any tokens neither I want to receive any future or present benefits. It is just cheap and offending if I am doing something good for someone and the person tries to put a price on my goodness.
     
  16. Oct 14, 2009 #15

    jambaugh

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    Why must the good deed be altruistically motivated? Is it not sufficient that it be of benefit to the other? If I expect benefit in return how does that diminish the benefit I give? If on the other had granting benefit brings benefit then such a system of selfishness benefits all far more.

    Rather I would call "my" system "reciprocal selfishness".

    In fact I think I'd call Triver's system that too except in his context there is no reasoning or conceptual weighing of risk-benefit. Rather the selfish genes by trial and error find the behavior they instill in their carriers which (locally) maximizes the genes' reproduction. Note the genes don't care which bird promulgates it. (from Trivers' warning call of birds example)
     
  17. Oct 14, 2009 #16

    jambaugh

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    Again good is as good does. You have --distorted by your upbringing-- a skewed version of doing good. You do me good when and to the degree that I benefit from your deed whether you receive credit or not.

    If I have the choice of getting a clunker car from you as a sacrifice,
    or a new car from some selfish slob who by some mechanism gets credit for that "gift" I'll take the new car.

    By your accounting am I not more pious by choosing to not let you sacrifice and choosing rather to let the slob benefit from my choice?
     
  18. Oct 14, 2009 #17

    jambaugh

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    Rather 20% end up with 80% of the TOGs because they are best able to maximize the distribution of benefit those TOGs reflect.

    As far as the Federal Tog Reserve goes, as long as they keep the value of the TOG stable they are providing a benefit and as long as the holders of power do not use coercive force to interfere in the free negotiation of TOG exchange then what does it matter? [A couple of big IF's I know.]
     
  19. Oct 14, 2009 #18
    The OP is satirizing an article that says money is evil. Money is not evil, it is a token system. This is the gist of the satire. The OP wants to call his new-fangled system 'capitalism'. The slogan "From each according to his benefit! To each according to his service!" is a declaration of nonsense.
     
  20. Oct 14, 2009 #19

    jambaugh

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    And you're stating the obvious why?

    I wouldn't call it nonsense. The point of my satire is to show the other side of money.

    Money really is a token of beneficial action. Dollars are really "Tokens of Goodness".

    The free contract and free market really is the only fair way to assess value and distribute benefit.

    That is so long as the exchange of goods and services for dollars are not distorted by the application of force based coercion (the only type but there are those who like to redefine "coercion") or fraud.
     
  21. Oct 14, 2009 #20
    I don't understand. Could you given an example?

    But they do. For the most part, an exchange of TOGs between party A and party B comes under scrutiny of coalition C who demand by threat of incarceration and ruin, a piece of the action--and sometimes they demand, by the same threats, that it be paid forward!

    By the way, I really appreciate your reconstruction. Good food for thought. I was considering that a Pay It Forward (PIF) exchange, without additional devices, would be a zero sum game. That is, the number of PIFs in the world would add up to zero. But TOG exchange could also be a zero sum game. As zero sum, there would be no central bank generating new TOGs out of nowhere, but it would require a clearing house, as it's otherwise difficult to pay for something with a pocket full of negative TOGs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
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