Representing a Hamiltonian in an operator form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around representing a Hamiltonian in operator form, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the algebraic representation of Hamiltonians, the Darwin correction to the Hydrogen Hamiltonian, and the treatment of specific terms such as the spin-orbital interaction and delta functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on how to represent a Hamiltonian in operator form, specifically regarding the Darwin correction and its calculation in an eigenstate.
  • Another participant explains that Hamiltonians are typically expressed as operators in a (rigged)-Hilbert space, represented as functions of other operators, and emphasizes the importance of identifying the form of the Darwin correction term.
  • There is a reiteration of the need to project the abstract vector onto the same basis as the Hamiltonian for proper calculations.
  • Concerns are raised about how to treat terms like the Darwin correction, which involves a delta function, and whether the 1/r^3 term in the spin-orbital interaction should be treated as a scalar or an operator.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using specific representations for operators, noting that some operators may only have a simple form in certain contexts.
  • A reference is made to a book discussing the derivation of correction terms, highlighting that these terms may not have corresponding operator forms due to the reduction of exactness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to represent specific terms in operator form, particularly regarding the treatment of delta functions and the nature of certain interaction terms. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these issues.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for clarity on the exact forms of correction terms and their representations, indicating potential limitations in understanding how these terms relate to operator forms.

nashed
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Given a Hamiltonian in the position representation how do I represent it in operator form? for example I was asked to calculate the expectancy of the Darwin correction to the Hydrogen Hamiltonian given some eigenstate (I think it was |2,1> or something bu that doesn't matter right now), now I know that the Hamiltonian is given in the position basis and as such I calculated the relevant integral, but the thing is that I wanted to try and do it algebraically and didn't know how to proceed...
 
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The Hamiltonian is always given in an operator form, i.e. it is a (rigged)-Hilbert space operator written as a function (typically algebraic) of other operators, such as position, momentum, angular momentum (including spin), electric charge, parity, etc. Only the Hilbert space is mapped to a certain space (a function space) so that the Hamiltonian and all other observables could be represented by differential operators. The so-called algebraic methods work by assuming no "projection onto a function space" takes place. This works for any Hamiltonian with (a) discrete (part of a) spectrum. This is easiest to see for the harmonic oscillator, but it also works for the discrete spectrum of the H-atom Hamiltonian.

1st step: identify the exact form of the Darwin correction term. IIRC, this is expressible only in a Hilbert space of wave functions, i.e. the "projection onto a function space" ##|\psi\rangle \rightarrow \langle x|\psi\rangle ## already took place.
2nd step: project the abstract vector ##|2,1\rangle## onto the same basis as the Hamiltonian was projected.
3rd step: compute the matrix elements.
 
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dextercioby said:
The Hamiltonian is always given in an operator form, i.e. it is a (rigged)-Hilbert space operator written as a function (typically algebraic) of other operators, such as position, momentum, angular momentum (including spin), electric charge, parity, etc. Only the Hilbert space is mapped to a certain space (a function space) so that the Hamiltonian and all other observables could be represented by differential operators. The so-called algebraic methods work by assuming no "projection onto a function space" takes place. This works for any Hamiltonian with (a) discrete (part of a) spectrum. This is easiest to see for the harmonic oscillator, but it also works for the discrete spectrum of the H-atom Hamiltonian.

1st step: identify the exact form of the Darwin correction term. IIRC, this is expressible only in a Hilbert space of wave functions, i.e. the "projection onto a function space" ##|\psi\rangle \rightarrow \langle x|\psi\rangle ## already took place.
2nd step: project the abstract vector ##|2,1\rangle## onto the same basis as the Hamiltonian was projected.
3rd step: compute the matrix elements.
Thanks for the help, but in the case of the Darwin term it's given by some constant times a delta function, how am I supposed to get the operator form of this expression? another example is the spin-orbital interaction, it's given by 1/r^3 times some constant time the angular momentum operator dotted with the spin operator, how am I supposed to treat the 1/r^3 part? as a scalar or as an operator, also if it's an operator how do I treat as it is not an analytic function of R
 
nashed said:
another example is the spin-orbital interaction, it's given by 1/r^3 times some constant time the angular momentum operator dotted with the spin operator, how am I supposed to treat the 1/r^3 part?
Some times, operators only have a simple form in a particular representation, and one has to use that representation to get the effect of the operator on a particular ket.
 
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nashed said:
Thanks for the help, but in the case of the Darwin term it's given by some constant times a delta function, how am I supposed to get the operator form of this expression?
Is it not ##\delta(\hat{\mathbf r})##?
nashed said:
Thanks for the help, but in the case of the Darwin term it's given by some constant times a delta function, how am I supposed to get the operator form of this expression? another example is the spin-orbital interaction, it's given by 1/r^3 times some constant time the angular momentum operator dotted with the spin operator, how am I supposed to treat the 1/r^3 part? as a scalar or as an operator, also if it's an operator how do I treat as it is not an analytic function of R
There is a good discussion on how these various correction terms were derived in appendix of the book Physics of Atoms and Molecules by B. H. Bransden and C. J. Joachain. The fact that they are correction terms means that some degree of exactness have been reduced out of the original exact, operator forms. Therefore, they do not necessarily have the corresponding operator form. The exact treatment of relativistic effects in hydrogen-like atoms can be found in the 2nd edition of Modern Quantum Mechanics by Sakurai and Napolitano.
 
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