Rewriting a limit as a derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around rewriting a limit as a derivative, specifically the limit $$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{\sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$$. Participants explore the relationship between the limit and the definition of the derivative, considering the function involved and how to express the limit in derivative form.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks hints on how to rewrite the limit as a derivative.
  • Another participant suggests identifying the function for which the derivative is being taken.
  • A later reply proposes that the limit can be rewritten as the derivative of the function $$f(x) = \sec x$$ at $$x = \pi$$.
  • Participants discuss the expression $$\sec(\pi + h)$$ and its relationship to $$\sec(\pi)$$, noting that $$\sec(\pi) = -1$$.
  • One participant attempts to derive the limit step-by-step, expressing it in terms of sine and cosine functions.
  • Another participant corrects a previous claim, emphasizing that the derivative should be associated with $$\sec(x)$$ rather than cosine.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of rewriting the limit as a derivative, but there is disagreement regarding the specific function involved and the interpretation of the limit. The discussion remains unresolved as participants explore different perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the original problem statement and the specific function to differentiate. There are also unresolved mathematical steps in the derivation process.

NavalMonte
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I was asked to rewrite the limit as a derivative:

$$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$$

Any hints on how to start?
 
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What function do you think you'd be taking the derivative of, do you think?
 
Ackbach said:
What function do you think you'd be taking the derivative of, do you think?

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you're asking.
 
Well, when you calculate a derivative, it's the derivative of a function. What's the only function in sight here?
 
Hello, NavalMonte!

It would have been considerate to give us the original problem.
I'm forced to guess what you are asking.

I was asked to rewrite the limit as a derivative:
$$\lim_{h\to0} \dfrac{\sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$$
I wager that the problem said:

. . \text{Given: }\:f(x) \,=\,\sec x
. . \text{Find }f'(x)\text{ at }x = \pi\text{ by definition.}\frac{f(\pi+h) - f(x)}{h} \;=\;\frac{\sec(\pi+h) - \sec(\pi)}{h}

. . . =\;\frac{\sec(\pi+h) - (-1)}{h} \;=\;\frac{\sec(\pi+h) + 1}{h}

Note that: .\sec(\pi+h) \:=\:\frac{1}{\cos(\pi+h)} \:=\:\frac{1}{-\cos h}

We have: .\frac{-\frac{1}{\cos h} +1}{h} \:=\:\frac{-1 + \cos h}{h\cos h} \:=\:-\frac{1-\cos h}{h\cos h}

Multiply by \frac{1+\cos h}{1+\cos h}\!:\;-\frac{1-\cos h}{h\cos h}\cdot\frac{1+\cos h}{1+\cos h}

. . . =\;-\frac{1-\cos^2h}{h\cos h(1+\cos h)} \;=\;-\frac{\sin^2h}{h\cos h(1+\cos h)}

. . . =\;-\frac{\sin h}{h}\cdot\frac{\sin h}{\cos h(1+\cos h)}Thus: .\lim_{h\to0}\left[-\frac{\sin h}{h}\cdot\frac{\sin h}{\cos h(1 + \cos h)} \right] \:=\:-1\cdot\frac{0}{1(2)} \:=\:0
 
What Ackbach was getting at is:

What is $\sec(\pi) = \dfrac{1}{\cos(\pi)}$?

Do you see an expression in your formula that is the negative of this?
 
Rewriting this limit into a derivative:

$$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$$

Looks like it came from:

$$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{f(a + h) - f(a)}{h}$$

I have to ask:

a=?
f(a+h)=?

So,
a = $\pi$
f(a + h) = sec($\pi$ + h)

therefore,
f(a) = Sec($\pi$) = -1

Plugging it back in works out:$$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{sec(\pi + h) - (-1)}{h} => \lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$$

So the answer would be:

$$\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \dfrac{sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h} = \dfrac{d}{dx}[cos(x)]$$

Would this be correct?
I had a professor give me a hint, but I'm not to sure if this would be what the question was asking for.
 
Nope.

You had everything right until this point:

$\displaystyle \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sec(\pi + h) + 1}{h}$

now if $\sec(\pi) = -1$, we can re-write THAT as:

$\displaystyle \lim_{h \to 0} \frac{\sec(\pi + h) - \sec(\pi)}{h}$

which looks like it's the derivative of what we're calling $f$, which is...?

(Hint: it's NOT "cosine").
 
Meant to say Sec(x).

Silly mistake (Doh)
 

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