Rigorous Feynman pathintegral derivation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the quantum mechanical path integral using a Hamiltonian that includes both kinetic and potential energy terms. Participants explore the challenges of handling non-commuting operators in the context of the path integral formulation, particularly in relation to Zee's QFT textbook exercise.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in deriving the path integral for a Hamiltonian that includes a potential term, noting the non-commutation of position and momentum operators.
  • Another participant suggests that writing the exponential form is reasonable due to the infinitesimal nature of δt, but questions the validity of reversing the expansion.
  • A participant comments on the interpretation of "infinitesimal" in physics, suggesting that it allows for truncation of Taylor series expansions.
  • Concerns are raised about the legitimacy of using the exponential form in the context of unbounded operators, with a participant speculating on the limitations of the power series definition.
  • One participant introduces the Trotter expansion as a potential solution to the problem, linking it to the Baker-Campbell-Hausdorff formula.
  • A later reply indicates that the Suzuki-Trotter expansion has resolved the original participant's issue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement on the utility of certain mathematical approaches, such as the Trotter expansion, while also expressing differing views on the appropriateness of using exponential forms and the implications of operator boundedness. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the rigorous treatment of the path integral derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of operator boundedness and the implications of using Taylor series expansions for unbounded operators. The discussion does not resolve these issues.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those studying quantum mechanics, particularly in the context of path integrals and operator theory, as well as for individuals interested in advanced mathematical techniques in quantum field theory.

nahsihorst
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Hey,

I'm trying to do exercise I.2.1. from Zee's QFT in a nutshell but I ran into a problem. The exercise is to derive the QM path integral with a Hamiltonian of the form 1/2 m p^2 + V(q). In the textbook he shows the proof for a free hamiltonian. He gets to a point where he has (I left out the integral for |p><p|)
[itex]e^{-i \delta t (\hat p^2 /2m)} |q> = e^{-i \delta t (\hat p^2 /2m)} |p><p|q> = e^{-i \delta t (p^2 /2m)} |p><p|q>[/itex] ([itex]\hat p[/itex]is an operator) which is obviously true. But in my case I have
[itex]e^{-i \delta t (\hat p^2 /2m + V(\hat q))} |q> \neq e^{-i \delta t( \hat p^2 /2m + V(q))} |q>[/itex]
as the commutator of [itex]\hat p[/itex] and [itex]\hat q[/itex] does not vanish. Thus I have no idea of how to prove this in general. In some QFT lecture notes I found they expand the exponential to first order, substitute[itex]\hat q = q[/itex]and [itex]\hat p = p[/itex]and write it again as an exponential. But I don't like this last step and want to do it more rigorous. Any hints?

Thanks :)
 
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Well that actually sounds reasonable like a reasonable step. Since δt is infinitesimal, writing them as exponentials is somewhat of a lie in the first place.
 
True, writing them as exponentials is reasonable. But I don't like to reverse this in the end, writing
[itex]1+\delta x = e^x[/itex]

Could you explain why writing them as exponentials is not correct?
 
When a physics book uses the term "infinitesimal", it means nothing more than that the expression that follows contains only a finite number of terms from a Taylor expansion around 0. For example, "for infinitesimal x, we have exp x=1+x" means that [tex]e^x=1+x+\mathcal O(x^2).[/tex] If it's OK to replace exp x with 1+x, then it's also OK to replace 1+x with exp x. The idea is that the neglected terms go to zero in the limit x→0. (You are working with an expression that follows a "[itex]\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}[/itex]" in the actual calculation, right?)

(I didn't look at the details of this specific problem. I'm just making a comment about what appears to be the main issue).
 
But I don't like to reverse this in the end, writing 1+δx=ex
At that point he's got an infinite product, and to get back to an exponential I guess he's using the identity lim N-> ∞ (1 + a/N)N = ea
 
Bill_K said:
At that point he's got an infinite product, and to get back to an exponential I guess he's using the identity lim N-> ∞ (1 + a/N)N = ea

Thanks a lot. I totally forgot about that relation. Just one last question:
Usually one defines the exponential of an operator with the help of the taylor series. Can one also use this definition and is it equal to the taylor exp.?
 
nahsihorst said:
Can one also use this definition and is it equal to the taylor exp.?
I'm pretty sure it would work for bounded operators, but I haven't tried to prove it. I'm guessing that it doesn't work in general for unbounded operators. Actually, I think that applies to the power series definition of the exponential too; it works for bounded operators but not in general for unbounded operators.

It seems to work for unbounded operators in some special cases. For example, define D by Df(x)=f'(x) for all smooth f. Then the power series definition combined with Taylor's formula tells us that f(x)=(exp(D)f)(0) for all x.

In those cases when the power series definition doesn't work, the exponential is defined by Stone's theorem.
 
I recommend you look up the "Trotter Expansion" of a matrix exponential. The path integral can be understood as a Trotter expansion in which resolutions of the identity (alternating between Q and P) are inserted. The Trotter expansion can be derived from the Baker-Campbell-Hausdorff formula, where operators 'X' and 'Y' will refer to the kinetic and potential energy in a small time slices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker–Campbell–Hausdorff_formula
 
Thanks at all. I think the Suzuki-Trotter expansion finally solved the problem for me.
 

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