S6-7.1.79 log integral u substitution

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of a log integral using substitution techniques, specifically focusing on the integral $$I=\int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{\ln\left({\frac{1}{u}}\right)}{1+\frac{1}{{u}^{2 }}} {u}^{2} \,du$$. Participants explore various methods of substitution and simplification, while also addressing potential relationships between different forms of the integral.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose using the substitution $$x = \frac{1}{u}$$ and express concern about the differential transformation, noting that $$\mathrm{d}x = -\frac{1}{u^2}\,\mathrm{d}u$$ rather than $$u^2\,\mathrm{d}u$$.
  • Others argue that the transformation leads to a relationship between the original integral and the transformed integral, suggesting that they may have the same value due to the nature of the logarithmic function.
  • A later reply questions the reasoning behind the relationship between the integrals and references the property of definite integrals that states $$\int_b^a f(x) \ dx = -\int_a^b f(x) \ dx$$.
  • Some participants suggest an alternative approach by setting $$x=e^{-t}$$, indicating that the resulting function is odd, which may lead to the conclusion that the integral evaluates to zero.
  • One participant expresses appreciation for the discussion, indicating that it has increased their confidence in understanding the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the evaluation of the integral and the implications of their transformations. While some agree on the relationship between the integrals, others remain uncertain about the final outcome, and the discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on the properties of logarithmic functions and the behavior of integrals under variable substitution, but the discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved.

karush
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,240
Reaction score
5
$\large{7.R.79} $
$\tiny\text{UHW 242 log integral }$
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/5717
$$\begin{align}
\displaystyle
x& = \frac{1}{u} & {u}^{2 }du&={dx }
\end{align} $$
$$I=\int_{0}^{\infty}
\frac
{\ln\left({\frac{1}{u}}\right)}
{1+\frac{1}{{u}^{2 }}}
{u}^{2}
\,du \\
Stuck🐮
$$$\tiny\text{ Surf the Nations math study group}$
🏄 🏄 🏄
 
Physics news on Phys.org
karush said:
$\large{7.R.79} $
$\tiny\text{UHW 242 log integral }$

$$\begin{align}
\displaystyle
x& = \frac{1}{u} & {u}^{2 }du&={dx }
\end{align} $$
$$I=\int_{0}^{\infty}
\frac
{\ln\left({\frac{1}{u}}\right)}
{1+\frac{1}{{u}^{2 }}}
{u}^{2}
\,du \\
Stuck🐮
$$$\tiny\text{ Surf the Nations math study group}$
🏄 🏄 🏄

You can simplify the integral more and represent it in terms of the original integral.
 
karush said:
$\large{7.R.79} $
$\tiny\text{UHW 242 log integral }$

$$\begin{align}
\displaystyle
x& = \frac{1}{u} & {u}^{2 }du&={dx }
\end{align} $$
$$I=\int_{0}^{\infty}
\frac
{\ln\left({\frac{1}{u}}\right)}
{1+\frac{1}{{u}^{2 }}}
{u}^{2}
\,du \\
Stuck🐮
$$$\tiny\text{ Surf the Nations math study group}$
🏄 🏄 🏄

If $\displaystyle \begin{align*} x = \frac{1}{u} \end{align*}$ then $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \mathrm{d}x = -\frac{1}{u^2}\,\mathrm{d}u \end{align*}$, not $\displaystyle \begin{align*} u^2\,\mathrm{d}u \end{align*}$. Now notice that if $\displaystyle \begin{align*} x \to 0^+ \end{align*}$ then $\displaystyle \begin{align*} u \to \infty \end{align*}$ and if $\displaystyle \begin{align*} x \to \infty \end{align*}$ then $\displaystyle \begin{align*} u \to 0 \end{align*}$. This gives

$\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{(x)}}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } &= \int_{\infty}^0{ \frac{\ln{\left( \frac{1}{u} \right) }}{1 + \left( \frac{1}{u} \right) ^2}\,\left( -\frac{1}{u^2} \right) \,\mathrm{d}u } \\ &= \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{ \ln{ \left( \frac{1}{u} \right) } }{ u^2\,\left( 1 + \frac{1}{u^2} \right) } \,\mathrm{d}u } \\ &= \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{ \left( \frac{1}{u} \right) }}{1 + u^2}\,\mathrm{d}u } \end{align*}$

Can you see a relationship between the two integrals?
 
Are you referring to
$$\int_b^a f(x) \ dx = -\int_a^b f(x) \ dx $$

Forget what this called nor do I know why🐮
 
karush said:
Are you referring to
$$\int_b^a f(x) \ dx = -\int_a^b f(x) \ dx $$

Forget what this called nor do I know why🐮

Yes I did use that rule.

Anyway, to finish off the problem, would you agree that $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{\left( \frac{1}{u} \right)}}{1+u^2}\,\mathrm{d}u} \end{align*}$ will have exactly the same value as $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{ \left( \frac{1}{x} \right) }}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } \end{align*}$? All that's happened is there is a different letter being used in the place of the variable.

So from our original equation $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{(x)}}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } = \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{ \left( \frac{1}{u} \right) }}{1 + u^2}\,\mathrm{d}u } \end{align*}$ we can write $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{(x)}}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } = \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{ \left( \frac{1}{x} \right) }}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } \end{align*}$.

Now since $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \ln{ \left( \frac{1}{x} \right) } = \ln{ \left( x^{-1} \right) } = -\ln{(x)} \end{align*}$ that means we have $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{(x)}}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } = -\int_0^{\infty}{ \frac{\ln{(x)}}{1 + x^2}\,\mathrm{d}x } \end{align*}$ and so the final result should now be obvious.
 
There is another approach to see that the integral goes to 0. Set $x=e^{-t}$. And realize the function generated is odd.
 
ZaidAlyafey said:
There is another approach to see that the integral goes to 0. Set $x=e^{-t}$. And realize the function generated is odd.
I really appreciate all the help with this
the class starts August 22.
so feeling more confident I will do well
due to this forum.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K