Say Hi to Space in 24 Hours: Hover in a Helicopter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of hovering in a helicopter and its implications for reaching space, particularly in relation to Earth's rotation and gravitational forces. Participants examine the physics of motion in a rotating frame and the feasibility of hovering as a means to enter space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that hovering in a helicopter for 24 hours could allow one to "say Hi to space," questioning the effects of Earth's rotation and gravitational pull.
  • Another participant counters that hovering does not negate the horizontal motion imparted by Earth's rotation, explaining that one would continue to move with the Earth while hovering.
  • A participant uses an analogy of jumping on a moving train to illustrate that one retains the horizontal velocity of the train when jumping, implying that the same principle applies to hovering in a helicopter.
  • There is a discussion about the energy and time required to reach space, with one participant equating the act of waiting for the Earth to rotate beneath you to launching a rocket.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the mechanics of jumping from a moving train, asking if they would move backward upon jumping, to which others clarify that they would not, ignoring air resistance.
  • One participant mentions the Coriolis force in relation to the discussion but suggests simplifying the explanation by invoking the principle of relativity.
  • A later reply introduces a conceptual model involving a spinning ball in water to explain the relationship between Earth's spin and its atmosphere, suggesting that the atmosphere moves along with the Earth due to initial momentum and friction over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanics of hovering and the implications of Earth's rotation, with no consensus reached on the feasibility of entering space by hovering in a helicopter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about gravitational forces, atmospheric density, and the effects of air resistance, which are not fully resolved. The analogy of jumping from a moving train introduces additional complexities regarding relative motion.

perfectz
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To space in 24 hours...

If I were to hover in a helicopter for 24 hours by some means or the other, won't I be able to say Hi to space.
Because of the Earth's revolution, and because I have overcome gravitational pull, won't I be able to enter space?
 
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I assume you mean if you hover off the ground shouldn't the ground rotate under you and so you travel sideways.
Unfortunately not - the helicopter (and you and the air) is already being pushed sideways at 900mph by the rotating earth, when you hover you keep this componnet of the force.
Imagine you are on a train doing 100mph, if you jump in the air you do not suddenly go 100mph toward the back of the train.

Helicopters only work in air (and only relatively dense low altitude air) otherwise you could go stright up into space, it's only about 60miles above you! But because you still have the horizontal motion from the Earth that you had on the ground you would still be rotating over the same point on earth.
 
mgb_phys said:
Imagine you are on a train doing 100mph, if you jump in the air you do not suddenly go 100mph toward the back of the train.

So then It'll take more than 24 hours to reach space that way?
 
Not sure what you mean.
I'm saying that stepping off the Earth and waiting for the earht to go past you is exacly the same as launching a rocket. It takes the same energy and same time.
 
I know that It's an impossible thing to just hover and move from one place to another.
I just wanted a valid explanation.
If I jump really high from a moving train running with a velocity of 100 mph, WILL I NOT MOVE BACKWARD FOR AT LEAST SOME DISTANCE?
 
perfectz said:
.
If I jump really high from a moving train running with a velocity of 100 mph, WILL I NOT MOVE BACKWARD FOR AT LEAST SOME DISTANCE?
No - ignoring air resistance.

You have to think about all the forces involved, on a train you are being pushed along sideways at 100mph, if you jump up you are actually jumping up at a few mph and sideways at 100mph.
 
...and ignoring the coriolis force. But for simplicity, let's just say you can play ping pong on a train and you won't have to care that it is moving. That's the principle of relativity.
 
If you have a ball (representing Earth) spinning in a pool, you can observe at water level a rotating layer - comparatively as thick as the Earth's atmosphere - just outside the ball's surface. Think of the Earth as maintaining its spin due to tremendous initial momentum which it has transferred (in small part) by friction to its atmosphere over billions of years. Thus the atmosphere, largely, and anything within it move along relative to the Earth.
 

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