Scalar as one dimensional representation of SO(3)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of scalar quantities as one-dimensional representations of the SO(3) group, particularly in the context of physics. Participants explore the relationship between scalars, group representations, and invariance under rotation, with references to foundational texts in particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a scalar, defined as invariant under rotation, can be reconciled with the statement that it belongs to a one-dimensional representation of SO(3).
  • Another participant confirms that the one-dimensional representation in question is indeed the function constantly equal to 1, providing a homomorphism example.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the meaning of a vector's modulus being a scalar and its relationship to the one-dimensional representation of SO(3).
  • Another participant clarifies that a scalar is a number invariant under group action, explaining the transformation properties of scalars versus vectors.
  • A participant raises a question about whether the transformation of quantities according to representations is a matter of definition or if there is a deeper reason behind it.
  • Another participant suggests that the dimension of a representation corresponds to the dimension of the vector space on which it acts, indicating a definitional aspect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of a scalar and its invariance under group actions, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the implications of these concepts and their interpretations in specific contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the precise meaning of terms and relationships, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the underlying mathematical structures and definitions.

iorfus
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Hi to all the readers of the forum.
I cannot figure out the following thing.

I know that a representation of a group G on a vector spaceV s a homomorphism from G to GL(V).
I know that a scalar (in Galileian Physics) is something that is invariant under rotation.

How can I reconcile this with the following sentence:
"an ordinary scalar belongs to the one-dimensional representation of the SO(3) group".
(It is taken from Griffiths' Introduction to elementary particles, but it is written in all introductory books on Particle Physics, as you will know)

What is the one-dimensional representation in question? Is it the function constantly equal to 1?
Even in that case, I am not sure I would understand.

Please, can someone elaborate on that? I cannot see which is the homomorphism involved!

Thank you for any help :-)
 
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iorfus said:
Is it the function constantly equal to 1?

Yes, this is indeed the case.

If g is a homomorphism, it must hold that g(ab) = g(a)g(b). For the mapping g(a) = 1 for all a, we have that g(ab) = 1 = 12 = g(a)g(b) so it is a homomorphism (it is a homomorphism for all groups.
 
Thanks! So far so good.
Maybe my next questions betrays a more fundamental problem in my comprehension of the subject.

To each group element we associate the number 1. Okay.
So what does it mean to say that tha modulus of a vector, say (1,1,0) which is 2, is a scalar? I just know that this is invariant if I rotate the vector!

What does it mean to say that the modulus belongs to a unidimensional representation of SO(3)?
Is the previous sentence precise/true/correct?
 
iorfus said:
So what does it mean to say that tha modulus of a vector, say (1,1,0) which is 2, is a scalar?

It is sqrt(2) ... but anyway.

A scalar is a number which is invariant under the group action. In general, if a quantity transforms according to the n-dimensional representation g, then it is represented by a column matrix v (with n entries), which transforms according to
$$v\to g(a) v$$
under the transformation ##a##. In the case with the trivial representation, a scalar is a number ##s## which transforms as ##s \to g(a)s = 1s = s##.
 
Perfect!
Last thing:
Orodruin said:
In general, if a quantity transforms according to the n-dimensional representation g, then it is represented by a column matrix v (with n entries), which transforms according to
$$v\to g(a) v$$
Is this a matter of definition/convention (isomorphisms between Rn and the groups of matrices, etc. ) or is there a "reason" for that?
 
Maybe it is simply the definition that the dimension of a representation is the dimension of the vector space on which it acts?
 
That would be by definition, yes.
 
Thanks!
 
Last edited:

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