Seattle airport removes Christmas trees to avoid lawsuit

[verty]

Many Symbols in Christianity can be traced back to the pagans

Including the immaculate conception.

 

[Moonbear]

Seattle airport bringing back Christmas trees
AKA
The rabbi who saved Christmas
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/airport.christmas.trees.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I heard that this morning and just laughed! I guess he wasn't quite prepared for the, "Fine, if you kids can't get along, then NOBODY gets their holiday celebrated," answer.

 

[Evo]

Once they took the trees down, there was no point to his lawsuit, kind of left him with egg on his face.

I don't mind religious decorations, but the airport had a point, they don't have time to research all religions to make sure they aren't missing someone. I guess they could have a policy that if you are a recognized religion with a valid holiday during this time and you furnish the decoration, we'll put it up. That would cover them.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't think any Jew ever celebrated Hanukkah with a giant Hanukkiah before Jews saw Christians putting up Christmas trees and decorations. What's nice about Hanukkah is the fact every family lights up their own small Hanukkiah and puts it by the window to make a true festival of lights. As the song goes "we are each a small light, and together we make strong light". I don't see why an Orthodox Rabbi should complain about Christians not putting up a Jewish imitation of Christianity, let alone threatening them with a lawsuit... It has nothing to do with religion, he's probably just looking for publicity. Personally, it strikes me as a display of insecurity with one's religion. If that Rabbi put his mind to more positive things he would accomplish much more for Judaism and the world in general.

Yes, I think you're right. Hannukah was celebrated much more privately and personally when I was a kid than it is now.

Is it true that it's actually a fairly minor holiday in the Jewish religion? I've been told that before, and that the only reason it's such a big deal in the US is the desire of the parents to keep up with the gifts their kids Christian friends will be getting. It amazes me how much has changed about the way the holiday is celebrated in my own lifetime. When I was a kid, the Jewish kids would light a candle in the Hannukah each night (the youngest in the family, right?), and had a special dinner on one of the nights (is it the first or last night that's the big deal?), and would get little bags of Hannukah gelt. There were no huge presents for each night like they get now. By the time I was a teen and into my early 20s, they were already exchanging gifts, but it would just be something very small for 7 of the 8 nights (sort of the equivalent of Christmas stocking stuffers) and then one present on the 8th night. It seems to have morphed more into the kids getting a big present each night now, and decorating with Hannukah "bushes," which look suspiciously like Christmas trees decorated in white and blue ornaments. In a way, it's interesting to have seen such change over such a short number of years, because it demonstrates a bit of how easy it probably was to introduce things like evergreen trees into early Christmas celebrations too.

 

[Moonbear]

Once they took the trees down, there was no point to his lawsuit, kind of left him with egg on his face.

I don't mind religious decorations, but the airport had a point, they don't have time to research all religions to make sure they aren't missing someone. I guess they could have a policy that if you are a recognized religion with a valid holiday during this time and you furnish the decoration, we'll put it up. That would cover them.

I wouldn't have really cared if they didn't bother putting trees up again next year (or didn't bother putting them back up this year once down). To me, Christmas trees are pretty and fun, but the airport is the last place I'm worried about enjoying Christmas decorations.

That article Ivan linked to said that the individual airlines decorated their counters with small trees after the big ones were taken down, and since they are renting the space, they can decorate it however they want. So, why not just leave it to the individual airlines' employees to decorate their counters if they want them decorated, and not waste time on decorating the rest of the airport? When flights are being delayed in the week before Christmas due to snowstorms and overbooked flights, I'm sure that floor space will be more appreciated than the trees. Spend the money on extra pillows and blankets instead!

 

[Evo]

Like the Happy Hannuka cards similar to Christmas cards.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Including the immaculate conception.

Some have argued that the Virgin Birth is a Christian borrowing from paganism. The impregnation of mortal women by gods is common in pagan mythology. However, this is not technically virginal conception, since virginity is lost by definition when the sex act is initiated. Christian writers have noted that the obvious sex of the pagan myths is missing in the Gospels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Birth

Interestingly, there is at least one sect of the Mormons who believe that God came down in physical form and had sex with Mary.

There is also the case of the Nephilim, but that's another discussion.

 

[Evo]

The Hanukka Reindeer

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Hanukka Reindeer

I like it!

 

[Yonoz]

Is it true that it's actually a fairly minor holiday in the Jewish religion? I've been told that before, and that the only reason it's such a big deal in the US is the desire of the parents to keep up with the gifts their kids Christian friends will be getting.

Hanukkah, if I'm correct, is not commanded by the holy scriptures. This is because it celebrates a fairly recent event in Jewish history, an uprising against the Greeks that occurred in 167-164 BCE, and the books describing it, both Maccabees and Daniel, were not included in the Old Testament. The first day of the holiday marks the anniversary of the liberation of the Temple in Jerusalem and the renewal of worship there. Later, the religious authorities added the miracle of the urn of oil (a holiday without a miracle is a holiday not worth having, apparently), in which they described how the single urn of oil that was found in the abandoned Temple sufficed for lighting the Menorah for 8 days and 8 nights - the time it took to produce new oil.
It gained importance in modern times due to two reasons, one of which you described. The other reason is that because of its connotation, i.e. a victory of the Jewish people over the Greeks and their supporters, it was embraced by Zionism as "its" holiday. The song I quoted is one of many Hannukah songs written with Zionist connotations, here's my rough translation for another famous one, also performed on Independence Day during the beacon-lighting ceremony:
We carry torches in dark nights,
the paths shine beneath our feet,
- those whose hearts thirst for the light
will look and come to us, to our light,
come!
A miracle did not befall us, an urn of oil did we not find,
To the valley we walked, up the mountain we climbed,
Fountains of hidden light did we discover,
A miracle did not befall us, an urn of oil did we not find,
The rock we chiseled till we bled, and there was light.

It amazes me how much has changed about the way the holiday is celebrated in my own lifetime. When I was a kid, the Jewish kids would light a candle in the Hannukah each night (the youngest in the family, right?), and had a special dinner on one of the nights (is it the first or last night that's the big deal?), and would get little bags of Hannukah gelt. There were no huge presents for each night like they get now. By the time I was a teen and into my early 20s, they were already exchanging gifts, but it would just be something very small for 7 of the 8 nights (sort of the equivalent of Christmas stocking stuffers) and then one present on the 8th night. It seems to have morphed more into the kids getting a big present each night now, and decorating with Hannukah "bushes," which look suspiciously like Christmas trees decorated in white and blue ornaments. In a way, it's interesting to have seen such change over such a short number of years, because it demonstrates a bit of how easy it probably was to introduce things like evergreen trees into early Christmas celebrations too.

It's usually the little guys that light the Hannukiah because they're so cute when they do it! It's usually the first and last nights that get the most attention, but there's no real distinction between the 8 nights traditionally.
Your description of the way it's morphed is interesting, I had no idea it was like that, what a huge difference!
Hanukkah is very relaxed here because unlike other holidays, Judaism doesn't prohibit anything but mourning. On Passover, the only other long holiday, shops in areas with a Jewish majority are not allowed to present or sell chametz (anything made with 5 types of grain - including beer!), which is a real downer, since by the time it ends those who practice these prohibitions are left a little fatter and a lot more constipated.

 

[mathwonk]

i love it. another example of the stupider the topioc the more responses.

 

[Cyrus]

Hey, you replied, didnt you?