Second degree for engineers for more job opportunities?

[unlucky_]

Hello, I'm a relatively new electrical engineering graduate based in Canada and I can't find any work. I receive lots of interviews but those never translate to offers. It appears that my experience and education are insignificant. Obviously this can't continue so I have two options. 1) Find a second certificate/diploma/degree somewhat related to electrical that will actually yield a job through a practicum which my degree did not have or 2) quit this field entirely and start again but I don't know in what. I am limited financially so preferably something online would be best. I've attached my CV below. Looking forward to your feedback and advice. Thanks.

 

[symbolipoint]

@unlucky_
(typing in this compose box is malfunctioning. apparently, the underscore character is part of the member's username.)
I have not looked at your C.V. but in case you want to try changing fields, would you imagine teaching English As A Second Language could be a possible talent? You may already have some qualiftying starting course credit and would need still some more education including teacher preparation courses and to earn a license or credential. E.S.L. is big business in many districts. Big demand! Districts at certain levels want teachers who know how to teach E.S.L.


edit: found misunderstanding about composition field

 

[unlucky_]

@symbolipoint
Not really much of a talent there.

 

[symbolipoint]

@symbolipoint
Not really much of a *talent there.

*Just to be helpfully open-minded, in case you feel an interest, the talent can be developed.

 

[berkeman]

Your GPA is redacted out of your CV. Can you say what it was? That's some great project experience you list from school -- was that part of working for a professor or just normal coursework?

 

[unlucky_]

It's ~4.00, I don't want to say the exact number for obvious reasons but close to it. Those projects were all done independently except for the Machine Learning System which was part of a group project.

 

[Choppy]

That's a challenging situation, and I don't think you're alone.
When you put all of that time and energy into a university degree, particularly in a professional field, its natural to want to come out on the other end with a job waiting for you.
It's difficult for us to randomly offer suggestions without really knowing you, your interests, passions, your learning style etc. but a few thoughts come time mind...

First, are you following up after interviews for feedback? Are there any common threads such as concerns about technical competence, or are you not a good fit for the teams? The key concern I would have is that if the issue is more that you come across as socially awkward, bitter, dispassionate about the position, etc. additional education is unlikely to help you. Instead you might benefit more from interview training and practice, which you should be able to get from your former university.

If the issue is a lack of experience, you might think about volunteer work you could get involved with. Joint a robotics team or club, go back to your university and see if you could help out a professor with a research project. One of my sons is heavily into RC planes right now and by joining a local club, he's learning a lot about basic electronics--maybe not what you're looking for specifically, but "maker-spaces" are usually happy when skilled people come in and can offer mentorship. This kind of thing can also provide major networking opportunities.

If the problem really is a lack of marketable skills, I'd start by taking a deep dive on what skills you have, what skills employers appear to be looking for in the kinds of positions you see yourself being most successful in, and where the gaps are in the Venn diagram overlap. Those gaps can be filled in by a number of ways. If, for example, you need more experience coding in Python, maybe just take on a project that will allow you to put something up on Github.

 

[Rive]

A completely impression-based opinion below:

Find a second certificate/diploma/degree

I do not recommend that at this point. Your experiences so far are great, but lacking focus: further widening your focus - well, I don't think it would help.

I receive lots of interviews but those never translate to offers. It appears that my experience and education are insignificant.

First, I would seek some IRL counseling about job seeking. With all these references I suspect that there should be an issue you are not aware.

What I see in your CV, is that you appear as a runaway Swiss army knife instead of a focused team player. But that's just an impression through the internet - you should seek personal, IRL advice.

 

[marcusl]

Most job seekers complain that they follow hundreds of leads but rarely or never get an interview. The fact that you are getting many interviews indicates to me that your experience is in demand and that you are targeting the right companies and opportunities.

It's hard to know what the issue is from what you've posted (the curse of asking for advice on an online forum) but the fact that you are getting no offers suggests to me that your interview skills might need improvement. Personal appearance counts. Are you neatly groomed, dressed professionally, no skull and knife tattoos, etc.? (You don't have to tell us.) Do you think well on your feet? Do you feel that you are in your comfort zone when answering the interviewers' questions? Are you well-spoken? Use classic standard grammar? Have deep and thoughtful answers that directly address the questions? Is there give-and-take during your interviews or does one side do most of the talking?

If the answer to any of these is no, then there's an opportunity to improve. You could write down the 20 most difficult or awkward questions you've been asked, write them down, and get family members to hold mock interviews with you. Each one can pick, say, 5 questions and grill you. Encourage them to riff on the questions by asking probing followup questions. When you attend your next interview, you can be prepared with thoughtful answers to many of the questions you might get.

There are many professional job seek/interview prep outfits. Not cheap, but you might get objective and useful feedback on your strengths and weaknesses as a job candidate.

 

[unlucky_]

First, are you following up after interviews for feedback? Are there any common threads such as concerns about technical competence, or are you not a good fit for the teams? The key concern I would have is that if the issue is more that you come across as socially awkward, bitter, dispassionate about the position, etc. additional education is unlikely to help you. Instead you might benefit more from interview training and practice, which you should be able to get from your former university.

Yes, I ask them after every interview and they either ghost me, say we decided to go with other candidates who are a better fit but offer to connect or stay in touch and no actual feedback as to where I'm wrong. It's become so bad that I started asking what are my chances of moving forwards as one of my questions near the end of interviews.

I'm at the point where I'm applying to any job even closely related to engineering. The few recruiters that do decide to give me feedback tell me to first gain experience in the exact software/tech/field for the exact position they are hiring for and then contact them again. I don't see how this exact specialized skill set can be achieved with just an EE undergrad degree and personal projects apart from some specialized certificate/credential/practicum. I don't know anymore.

Also you mention makerspaces and volunteering for professors but do they accept people who have already graduated? Because in the university I completed the makerspace is only reserved for students still in their degree. Also when I contact professors for research they either ghost me or state they have no room. What's ironic is that even during undergrad this exact same thing happened to me. Rejected from both internships and volunteer positions with professors. One even offered to be my reference for jobs or grad school and when I asked about jobs or if they knew if anyone is hiring I got ghosted.

 

[Choppy]

Yes, I ask them after every interview and they either ghost me, say we decided to go with other candidates who are a better fit but offer to connect or stay in touch and no actual feedback as to where I'm wrong. It's become so bad that I started asking what are my chances of moving forwards as one of my questions near the end of interviews.

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a tough go of it. That's got to be frustrating.

I'm at the point where I'm applying to any job even closely related to engineering. The few recruiters that do decide to give me feedback tell me to first gain experience in the exact software/tech/field for the exact position they are hiring for and then contact them again. I don't see how this exact specialized skill set can be achieved with just an EE undergrad degree and personal projects apart from some specialized certificate/credential/practicum. I don't know anymore.

Yeah, for sure. If you have a pool of applicants with one or more who have specific and successful experience in what they need, it's rare that a hiring committee will give that up to hire someone without it.

For what it's worth, I've always been more of a fan of a strategic long-term approach to the job hunt over the mass application approach. In the strategic approach you decide on the field you want to get into and then develop a long-term plan to get to where you want to be. You go to conventions and trade shows. You do a deep dive into the field and figure out what software is common, what skill set is need, what the traits are of the more successful people in the field. You do job shadows. You build up a network of contacts. It's not easy. It takes time and investment.

 

[gleem]

@Unlucky, did you research each company to get an understanding of their product/service to determine how your background matched their interests? Did you demonstrate interest in working for the company by speaking to your ability to contribute to their goals?

Your history of being ghosted is worrisome and may point to some personal issues. Obtaining the services of a career counselor, as @Choppy suggests, seems advisable.

 

[unlucky_]

@Unlucky, did you research each company to get an understanding of their product/service to determine how your background matched their interests? Did you demonstrate interest in working for the company by speaking to your ability to contribute to their goals?

Yes, I start with saying why I'm interested, I then explain my background and tell them I would like to leverage my experience. I tell them that my future goal is earning my PENG license, becoming more proficient in the craft, etc. I always read the job postings, etc.

Then the interview becomes neutral and then one week later rejection and ghosting. What to do?

School advisors also dont want to help graduates at the university I went to only students.

 

[unlucky_]

So I guess the most interesting question is what to do? What education do employers actually value? Realistically, they can always say they've found a more experienced candidate no matter what I do and I'll be job searching indefinitely and forever which is not practical at all. This has to stop and it has to be something that is valued.

 

[symbolipoint]

So I guess the most interesting question is what to do? What education do employers actually value? Realistically, they can always say they've found a more experienced candidate no matter what I do and I'll be job searching indefinitely and forever which is not practical at all. This has to stop and it has to be something that is valued.

I planned to make a private response, but maybe there is no need to be secretive.
"What education is of value to employers?"

Not always in the candidates' educations. Employers want if possible, people who are trained (and experienced).

What were you TRAINED, not educated, to do?
What exactly do you know how to design?
What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair?
Did you ever investigate a real-world problem which was not academic but practical or industrial, which a company might find appealing ?

 

[Rive]

What ... do employers actually value?

Mostly they value people who will - by previous example or by displayed qualities - likely fit in.
Education is just one point.

 

[unlucky_]

Not always in the candidates' educations. Employers want if possible, people who are trained (and experienced).

What were you TRAINED, not educated, to do?
What exactly do you know how to design?
What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair?
Did you ever investigate a real-world problem which was not academic but practical or industrial, which a company might find appealing ?

The education I earned has been largely useless to me despite being accredited ( I know I shouldn't use useless but just stating the facts here). I had to train myself and all those projects you see aren't academic projects but real-world ones using practical applications.

And apparently self-training is not satisfactory to employers despite me having some experience too.

- What were you TRAINED, not educated, to do?
What exactly do you know how to design?
What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair? -

There are practicums for that and that's what I'm here to understand. Which practicums/programs yield skills that employers value?

What exactly do you know how to design? Converters, Inverters, various non-standard topologies that I experimented with. Low voltage distribution systems from transformers to control panels,etc

What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair? Power tools, soldering, voltmeters,etc.

Without a practicum, interviewing is pointless because they can always make an excuse for not selecting me.

Also companies require knowledge in the exact technology stack they want. And it's not possible to learn them without working directly with them which you either need to already be hired or volunteer. I've even been rejected asking for possible volunteer positions.

 

[symbolipoint]

From what symbolipoint said

- What were you TRAINED, not educated, to do?
What exactly do you know how to design?
What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair? -

member unlucky_ 's response

There are practicums for that and that's what I'm here to understand. Which practicums/programs yield skills that employers value?

Not too clear what "practicum" means. If it is visiting a variety of stations and responding to a question at each, then it would carry no or little meaning to an employer. Someone who earns a degree in Engineering, as much as could imagine, is understood to be trained for some job in Engineering. Possible my misunderstanding. Also maybe only my opinion, but if you self-taught yourself some practical skill and have familiarity with ,... as I described in quote, it may still count for something. Potential problem is, did you use any skills either in school or as an employee, so that somebody was aware? I guess you're a recent graduate and were not yet employed in Engineering or related.

 

[symbolipoint]

What exactly do you know how to design? Converters, Inverters, various non-standard topologies that I experimented with. Low voltage distribution systems from transformers to control panels,etc

What equipment and instruments do you know how to operate, maintain, and repair? Power tools, soldering, voltmeters,etc.

How, where? In school? SOMEBODY is aware of those, and you should be able to list them, or tell them (in speaking to company representative at appropriate opportunity).

 

[symbolipoint]

Also companies require knowledge in the exact technology stack they want. And it's not possible to learn them without working directly with them which you either need to already be hired or volunteer. I've even been rejected asking for possible volunteer positions.

Volunteering to work for a business, the businesses take as suspect; people do not work for free! Violation of labor regulations! My impression is that the gap between Engineering education and on-the-job training is too, too large.

Any opportunities for unpaid internships?

 

[gleem]

The fact that you got an interview means they are satisfied with your academic qualifications. You lose it in the interview process either because someone has outshone you or you were underwhelming. If it is your fault, you can do something about it by finding the problem.