Sequnce of rationals less than pi, which converges to pi

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the search for sequences of rational numbers that converge to the mathematical constant \(\pi\), with the specific condition that each term in the sequence must be less than \(\pi\). Participants explore various mathematical approaches, including Taylor series and historical methods, while also expressing challenges in finding such sequences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about sequences converging to \(\pi\) that are all less than \(\pi\), referencing the Taylor expansion of the arctangent function, but notes that the first term exceeds \(\pi\).
  • Another participant suggests the sequence related to \(\zeta(2) = \frac{\pi^2}{6}\) as a potential example, although it is unclear if this meets the criteria of being less than \(\pi\).
  • Archimedes' method of inscribing regular polygons within a circle is proposed as a valid sequence that converges to \(\pi\), but further clarification is requested by another participant.
  • A simple sequence of rational approximations of \(\pi\) such as \(3, 3.1, 3.14, 3.141, 3.1415, 3.14159, \ldots\) is mentioned as a straightforward example.
  • Another participant presents a general formula for constructing sequences that converge to \(\pi\) using a function \(f(i)\) and a rational base \(b\), noting that the specific sequence provided may not align with the original inquiry.
  • Discussion includes transformations of alternating series into positive term series, with examples provided, though the relevance to the original question remains uncertain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of approaches and examples, but no consensus is reached on a single sequence that meets all criteria. Multiple competing views and methods are presented, indicating an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the applicability of certain sequences and methods, and there are limitations in the definitions and assumptions underlying the proposed sequences.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical sequences, approximations of \(\pi\), and historical methods of calculating \(\pi\) may find this discussion relevant.

Amer
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is there any sequnce which converges to \pi such that each term of it less than pi
I know the sequnce related with the taylor expansion of the arctan \sum_{i=1}^\infty \frac{(-1)^{i+1}}{(2i-1)}
but this sequnce first term is bigger than pi
why I am looking for such a sequnce because I want to find a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} such that

\cup (a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} ) = (\sqrt{2} , \pi)
for the \sqrt{2} i was thinking about the taylor series for \sqrt{x}
but what I am stuck at is the taylor series for a function T(x) is convereges to f(a) if the expansion was around the a

Any ideas
Thanks
 
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Amer said:
is there any sequnce which converges to \pi such that each term of it less than pi
I know the sequnce related with the taylor expansion of the arctan \sum_{i=1}^\infty \frac{(-1)^{i+1}}{(2i-1)}
but this sequnce first term is bigger than pi
why I am looking for such a sequnce because I want to find a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} such that

\cup (a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} ) = (\sqrt{2} , \pi)
for the \sqrt{2} i was thinking about the taylor series for \sqrt{x}
but what I am stuck at is the taylor series for a function T(x) is convereges to f(a) if the expansion was around the a

Any ideas
Thanks

Hi Amer! :)

Well... another sequence is $\zeta(2) = 1 + \dfrac 1 {2^2} + \dfrac 1 {3^2} + ... = \dfrac {\pi^2}{6}$
You can find more sequences like that on wiki.
 
Amer said:
is there any sequnce which converges to \pi such that each term of it less than pi
I know the sequnce related with the taylor expansion of the arctan \sum_{i=1}^\infty \frac{(-1)^{i+1}}{(2i-1)}
but this sequnce first term is bigger than pi
why I am looking for such a sequnce because I want to find a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} such that

\cup (a_{\alpha} , b_{\alpha} ) = (\sqrt{2} , \pi)
for the \sqrt{2} i was thinking about the taylor series for \sqrt{x}
but what I am stuck at is the taylor series for a function T(x) is convereges to f(a) if the expansion was around the a

Any ideas
Thanks

Archimedes sequence of inscribed regular polygons to a circle of unit diameter will give what you want.

.
 
zzephod said:
Archimedes sequence of inscribed regular polygons to a circle of unit diameter will give what you want.

.

can you give me a link about what you are talking about, thanks again
I googled Archimedes sequnce but i did not get trivial thing
 
ILikeSerena said:
Hi Amer! :)

Well... another sequence is $\zeta(2) = 1 + \dfrac 1 {2^2} + \dfrac 1 {3^2} + ... = \dfrac {\pi^2}{6}$
You can find more sequences like that on wiki.

interesting link, thanks
I am looking for pi without power :)
 
There is always the sequence $\{3,\,3.1,\,3.14,\,3.141,\,3.1415,\,3.14159,\, \ldots\}$.
 
Or more generally, any sequence $a_i$ which satisfies:

$$a_i = \left \lfloor \left ( \pi - f(i) \right ) \cdot b^i \right \rfloor b^{-i}$$

For any function $f$, with $f(i) \geq 0$, such that the limit to infinity of $f$ be zero, and any rational base $b > 1$.

The sequence Opalg presented is one of the family above, with $b = 10$ and $f(i) = 0$. For instance, in base $4$:

$$\{ 3,\ 3,\ 3.125,\ 3.140625,\ \dots \}$$

Using a non-constant function, say, $f(i) = \pi e^{-i}$, we get, in base 10:

$$\{ 0,\ 1.9,\ 2.71,\ 2.985,\ 3.084,\ 3.12042,\ \dots \}$$

But of course, using this "digit extraction" method is probably not Amer wanted ;)
 
Last edited:
Any alternating sign terms series can be transformed in a positive terms series as follows... $\displaystyle \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} (-1)^{n}\ a_{n} = (a_{0}-a_{1}) + (a_{2}-a_{1}) +...$ (1) ... so that is... $\displaystyle \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{(-1)^{n}} {2n + 1} = (1-\frac{1}{3}) + (\frac{1}{5}- \frac{1}{7}) +...$ (2)

Kind regards $\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
Any alternating sign terms series can be transformed in a positive terms series as follows... $\displaystyle \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} (-1)^{n}\ a_{n} = (a_{0}-a_{1}) + (a_{2}-a_{1}) +...$ (1) ... so that is... $\displaystyle \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{(-1)^{n}} {2n + 1} = (1-\frac{1}{3}) + (\frac{1}{5}- \frac{1}{7}) +...$ (2)

Kind regards $\chi$ $\sigma$

I like it! (Sun)

Cleaning it up a little so we don't see that "ugly" minus sign anymore, you'd get:
$8 \displaystyle\sum_{n=0}^\infty \frac{1}{(4n+1)(4n+3)} = 8(\frac{1}{1 \cdot 3} + \frac{1}{5 \cdot 7} + \frac{1}{9 \cdot 11} + ...) = 8(\frac{1}{3} + \frac{1}{35} + \frac{1}{99} + ...)= \pi$​

Looks just as if there never was a minus sign involved! (Wink)
 
  • #10
you gave me a punch of ideas thanks very much all of you
 
  • #11
Amer said:
can you give me a link about what you are talking about, thanks again
I googled Archimedes sequnce but i did not get trivial thing

A paper (pdf) that provides the background and the formula using only elementary methods can be found >>here<<

.
 

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