Setting up a extremization problem

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around setting up an extremization problem in the context of physics, specifically related to maximizing proper time between two points in spacetime. The original poster expresses difficulty in determining how to apply Euler's equation and the spacetime interval in their setup.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between proper time and the spacetime interval, questioning how to express the interval in terms of spatial variables. There are attempts to clarify the integration process and the implications of constraints like constant velocity.

Discussion Status

Some participants are providing insights into the mathematical relationships involved, while others are seeking clarification on the setup and the reasoning behind certain equations. There is an ongoing exploration of different approaches to the problem without a clear consensus on the best method.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the dependency of variables and the nature of constraints in the problem. The original poster is also grappling with how to relate their findings to the requirement of showing that the correct path has a constant velocity.

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Homework Statement


I am having trouble setting up problems that require me to extremize. I know how to use Euler's equation, but I don't understand how to get what it is that I want to plug in.

what I need to show is that the the correct path between two points (x,t) and (x2,t2) maximizes the proper time. and that the correct path has a constant velocity v=dx/dt

Homework Equations


instead of distance, I am supposed to use spacetime interval dτ^2 = dt^2 − dx^2,
τ is proper time

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried to treat this as if it were the same as the distance equation, and the constant velocity v=dx/dt was just a constraint. but I don't know. I don't think that works. I haven't a clue how to set this up.
 
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Have you solved ##d\tau## in terms of dx to remove t from the equations?
 
RUber said:
Have you solved ##d\tau## in terms of dx to remove t from the equations?
I don't know what you mean. I solved ##d\tau## = sqrt (dt^2 - dx^2) and then simplified it to ##d\tau## = sqrt( 1 - x'^2)dt is that what you are saying?
 
Let me try a different tack

I am trying to understand how to determine this. If I can figure out what equation to put into dy and dg, then I can solve it.

Maybe if you can explain why other equations were chosen.
If I want to maximize the area, the equation is ∫dA = ∫y*dx why? I understand that the width varies. that I am integrating between x1 and x2. but isn't y dependent on x? why wouldn't it just be the integral of dx?
or maybe we are looking at it as ∫dA = ∫y(x)dx ? I guess that would make sense?

or for length. we said that ds = √((dx)^2 + (dy)^2) that makes sense to me because that is the equation of the hypotenuse. So I feel like I should do the same with dτ = sqrt (dt^2 - dx^2)
I want to say that f( x' ; t ) = sqrt( 1 - x'^2 ) dt

that makes sense, but what about the other part? show that the correct path has a constant velocity v=dx/dt . is that a constraint, or is that the result I am trying to prove. how do I handle this?

do I say v = dx/dt and say g( x' , t ) = x' ?edit: I found an example problem that said for a fixed perimeter length and it used k= ∫dl = ∫sqrt (1+y'^2)
so I guess maybe for a fixed velocity k= ∫dv = ∫ something... maybe dv/dt? dv/dt = x"

edit: or maybe ∫dv = x'dt

then maybe I can factor out the dx/dt and solve it that way?
 
Last edited:
tried that. Got x' = (t + C) / \sqrt{1 + (t + C)^2)}

now to integrate

edit: I got sqrt ( 1 + (t + C)^2)
is that right? does that make sense?
 
Last edited:

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