Should attempted murder and murder carry the same charges?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the legal implications of attempted murder versus successful murder, exploring whether both should carry the same charges. Participants examine the nuances of intent, planning, and the consequences of actions within the context of criminal law.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that both attempted murder and successful murder should be charged the same due to the shared intent to kill.
  • Others suggest that the outcome (effect) of the act should influence the severity of the punishment, distinguishing between successful and unsuccessful attempts.
  • There is a viewpoint that intent is crucial, and without a clear intention to kill, actions may not constitute murder.
  • Some participants raise questions about the implications of intent in various scenarios, such as during a robbery or in cases of reckless behavior.
  • Concerns are expressed about the potential for legal definitions to blur the lines between different degrees of murder and manslaughter.
  • A participant mentions that during a grand jury experience, they learned that intent can be inferred even if the victim is not the intended target.
  • There are discussions about the implications of actions that could lead to unintended consequences, such as in bar fights or other altercations.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the legal system's handling of these distinctions, questioning the rationale behind certain charges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, with multiple competing views remaining on how attempted murder and murder should be charged and the role of intent and outcome in determining legal consequences.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions of murder and manslaughter, the implications of intent, and how various scenarios might be legally interpreted. There are also references to the complexities of legal definitions and the potential for subjective interpretation in different cases.

  • #31
Should the intent of an attack be that of murder, yet not result in it, the "penalty phase" of attempted murder is very similar to actual murder in many jurisdictions.
 
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  • #32
Slightly off-topic, there are conditions where killing another is not considered "murder"
"Justifiable homocide" is a "special circumstance" allowed by federal law as a viable defense.

This would include such matters as killing a violent home intruder, violent rapist, etc...
 
  • #33
In the case of a non-violent assault, the victims reaction must be non-lethal in most, but not all, states.
The over-riding rule, accepted in all courts, is that if the victim reasonably presumes a threat of death or great bodily harm, the victim is allowed any and all measures to stop the attack, including lethal consequence to the attacker.
 
  • #34
pallidin said:
In the case of a non-violent assault, the victims reaction must be non-lethal in most, but not all, states.
The over-riding rule, accepted in all courts, is that if the victim reasonably presumes a threat of death or great bodily harm, the victim is allowed any and all measures to stop the attack, including lethal consequence to the attacker.

the castle law. texas says i can kill some one on my land for being there w/out my permission.
 
  • #35
Darken-Sol said:
the castle law. texas says i can kill some one on my land for being there w/out my permission.
Indeed.
And that is why, I think, Pallidin made the qualification:

"In the case of a non-violent assault, the victims reaction must be non-lethal in most, but not all, states."
 

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