Show Im(gf)=Im(g) When f is Onto (Wondering)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the images of the compositions of functions, specifically showing that Im(gf) = Im(g) when the function f is onto. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of function properties.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof attempt showing that if f is onto, then Im(gf) = Im(g) by demonstrating both inclusions.
  • Another participant argues that the onto property of f is not necessary to show Im(gf) ⊆ Im(g), stating that the definition of f(z) being in C suffices for the proof.
  • A subsequent reply reiterates the argument that the onto property is not needed, restating the proof structure without it.
  • A later reply confirms the correctness of the proof presented by the first participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the necessity of the onto property of f for the proof. Some participants assert that it is not required, while others initially propose that it is relevant.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the necessity of the onto property definitively, as it hinges on interpretations of definitions and the structure of the proof.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in function composition, image properties in mathematics, and proofs involving onto functions may find this discussion relevant.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $f:B\rightarrow C$ and $g:C\rightarrow D$.
I want to show that Im(gf)=Im(g), when f is onto. I have done the following:

Let $x\in \text{Im}g$.
Then $\exists y\in C$ such that $g(y)=x$.
Since $f$ is onto, we have that $\exists b\in B$ such that $f(b)=y$.
Then $g(f(b))=x\Rightarrow x=(gf)(b)$.
So, $x\in \text{Im}(gf)$.

Let $x\in \text{Im}(gf)$ then $\exists z\in B$ such that $x=(gf)(z)=g(f(z))$.
Since $f$ is onto, we have that $\forall c\in C \ \ \exists b\in B$ such that $f(b)=c$.
We choose $c=f(z)$ and then we have that $x=g(c)\Rightarrow x\in \text{Im}(g)$.

Is my last step correct? I am not really sure.. (Wondering)
 
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Hi mathmari,

There is no need of $f$ to be onto to prove $Im(gf)\subseteq Im(g)$ since, by definition, $f(z)\in C$
 
Fallen Angel said:
There is no need of $f$ to be onto to prove $Im(gf)\subseteq Im(g)$ since, by definition, $f(z)\in C$

Let $x\in \text{Im}(gf)$ then $\exists z\in B$ such that $x=(gf)(z)=g(f(z))$.
We have that $f(z)\in C$, say $c:=f(z)$, then we have that $x=g(c)\Rightarrow x\in \text{Im}(g)$.

Is this correct? Or didn't you mean it so? (Wondering)
 
Yes, that's correct.
 
Thank you very much! (Yes)
 

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