Show R^2 \{(0,0)} and {(x,y) | 1 < sqrt(x^2+y^2) < 3} are homeomorphic

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Mikaelochi
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of demonstrating that the sets \(\mathbb{R}^2 \setminus \{(0,0)\}\) and \(\{(x,y) \mid 1 < \sqrt{x^2+y^2} < 3\}\) are homeomorphic. Participants explore various approaches to constructing a suitable homeomorphism, discussing the properties required for such a mapping and the challenges associated with finding one.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about how to begin constructing a homeomorphism, noting the complexity of the problem.
  • One participant suggests starting by showing that \(\mathbb{R} \setminus \{0\}\) and \((-3,-1) \cup (1,3)\) are homeomorphic, leveraging the radial symmetry of the sets.
  • Another participant proposes using polar coordinates and suggests that points in the annulus defined by \(1 < \sqrt{x^2+y^2} < 3\) can be transformed through stretching and mapping.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the simplicity of working with rays and suggests that linear maps can yield continuity and bijection more straightforwardly.
  • Participants discuss the importance of ensuring that the homeomorphism is a continuous bijection with a continuous inverse, highlighting a common misconception about continuous bijections.
  • Some participants propose using the tangent function or the arctanh function to facilitate the mapping of intervals to achieve the desired homeomorphism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on a single approach to constructing the homeomorphism, with multiple competing views and methods being proposed. Participants express differing opinions on the complexity of the problem and the best strategies to tackle it.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the sets in question are in \(\mathbb{R}^2\) and clarify the distinction between a torus and an annulus in the context of the problem. There are also mentions of theorems that could potentially simplify the discussion, but it is unclear if all participants are familiar with them.

Mikaelochi
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
TL;DR
Basically I know that for two things to be homeomorphic the function that maps the two things have to be bijective and continuous but how do I even start this problem?
As I said in the summary, I don't really know how to even figure out which function would be appropriate to map the two sets that I described in the title. I'm using the book called Basic Topology by M.A. Armstrong. The book can sometimes be really dense. I am having a really hard time knowing where to start with this problem because it's not as simple as just proving a particular function is bijective and continuous. I know the first thing is the plane minus the origin and the second thing is a circular disk. Any help or hints or whatever would really help! This course just has me so lost sometimes.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I would probably begin by showing that ##\mathbb{R} \setminus \{0\}## and ##(-3,-1) \cup (1,3)## are homeomorphic. Next, I would use that the sets in the plane have radial symmetry.

(There are some theorems that can give faster conclusions, but I do not know if you have already proved those. Also, when you are starting out, it may not be bad to actually construct the homeomorphism.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
so for the example you just gave, would I need to find a function that maps R \ {0} to (-3, -1) U (1,3)? I'm not very well versed in homeomorphism proofs
 
Mikaelochi said:
Summary:: Basically I know that for two things to be homeomorphic the function that maps the two things have to be bijective and continuous but how do I even start this problem?

As I said in the summary, I don't really know how to even figure out which function would be appropriate to map the two sets that I described in the title. I'm using the book called Basic Topology by M.A. Armstrong. The book can sometimes be really dense. I am having a really hard time knowing where to start with this problem because it's not as simple as just proving a particular function is bijective and continuous. I know the first thing is the plane minus the origin and the second thing is a circular disk. Any help or hints or whatever would really help! This course just has me so lost sometimes.
You have a punctured plane and a torus. Draw a circle ##\sqrt{x^2+y^2}=2##. This circle will be fixed points. All points ##1<\sqrt{x^2+y^2}<2 ## will be stretched to ##0<\sqrt{x^2+y^2}<2## and all points ##2<\sqrt{x^2+y^2}<3## will be stretched to ##2<\sqrt{x^2+y^2}< \infty .##

Now all you have to do is to figure out the transformations and prove that they are a homeomorphism. Polar coordinates might be easier to handle in this case.
 
fresh_42 said:
You have a punctured plane and a torus.
Technically, the latter is an annulus. The sets in the problem are in ##\mathbb R^2##, not ##\mathbb R^3##.
 
@Mikaelochi , to help you get started with @S.G. Janssens's hint, the tangent function (positive half of the principal branch) maps the interval ##(0, \pi/2)## to the interval ##(0, \infty)##. If you can transform the tangent function by compressing it a bit, followed by a translation, you should be able to map the interval ##(1, 3)## to the interval ##(0, \infty)##. If you follow that, finding a map from the other half, ##(-3, -1)## shouldn't be too hard.
 
I think these approaches with the interval are way too complicated. If we work with rays, we have only one coordinate to bother, the radius. Furthermore, stretchings are linear maps, i.e. determined by two points. This immediately yields continuity and bijection. And if we set ##r':=r-2## we have an origin at ##r'=0.##
 
Mikaelochi said:
Summary:: Basically I know that for two things to be homeomorphic the function that maps the two things have to be bijective and continuous but how do I even start this problem?

As I said in the summary, I don't really know how to even figure out which function would be appropriate to map the two sets that I described in the title. I'm using the book called Basic Topology by M.A. Armstrong. The book can sometimes be really dense. I am having a really hard time knowing where to start with this problem because it's not as simple as just proving a particular function is bijective and continuous. I know the first thing is the plane minus the origin and the second thing is a circular disk. Any help or hints or whatever would really help! This course just has me so lost sometimes.
Don't mean to nitpick, but this is an important detail: the homeomorphism is a continuous bijection...with a continuous inverse. Not every continuous bijection has a continuous inverse. I think this is an important detail.
 
Mark44 said:
@Mikaelochi , to help you get started with @S.G. Janssens's hint, the tangent function (positive half of the principal branch) maps the interval ##(0, \pi/2)## to the interval ##(0, \infty)##. If you can transform the tangent function by compressing it a bit, followed by a translation, you should be able to map the interval ##(1, 3)## to the interval ##(0, \infty)##. If you follow that, finding a map from the other half, ##(-3, -1)## shouldn't be too hard.

Alternatively, \operatorname{arctanh} maps (0,1) to (0,\infty).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
7K
Replies
14
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K