Show that f'(0) exists and find its value

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exercise of proving the existence of the derivative \( f'(0) \) for a function \( f \) that is continuous at 0, given a specific limit condition involving \( f(x) \) and \( f(tx) \). Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate this and to find the value of the derivative.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that using the limit condition, they can express \( f'(0) \) as \( \frac{bt}{t-1} \) and asks for validation of their reasoning.
  • Another participant applies L'Hôpital's rule to derive \( f'(0) = \frac{b}{1-t} \), asserting that this implies the existence of the derivative.
  • Some participants discuss the application of the Mean Value Theorem, proposing that it leads to the conclusion \( f'(0) = \frac{\alpha}{1-t} \) under certain conditions.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of information regarding the differentiability of \( f \) beyond continuity at 0, questioning the validity of applying certain theorems like L'Hôpital's rule or the Mean Value Theorem.
  • A later reply emphasizes the need to prove differentiability at 0, providing a detailed argument involving limits and inequalities to support the claim that \( f'(0) \) exists and equals \( \frac{b}{1-t} \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of various mathematical theorems due to the lack of information about the differentiability of \( f \). While some assert that \( f'(0) \) can be derived as \( \frac{b}{1-t} \), others argue that the proof of differentiability is necessary before concluding the existence of the derivative.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the continuity of \( f \) is only established at the point 0, which raises questions about the use of results that require differentiability. The discussion includes various mathematical manipulations and assumptions that are not universally accepted among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in calculus, particularly in understanding the subtleties of differentiability and the application of limits in proving the existence of derivatives.

evinda
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Hello! :D
I am looking at this exercise:
Let f: (-a,a)\rightarrow \mathbb{R} continuous at 0.We suppose that for a t \epsilon (0,1) this condition is satisfied:

\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}=b

Show that f'(0) exists and find its value.

I thought that I could write it like that \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)+f(0)-f(tx)}{x}=b \Rightarrow \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)}{x}+\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(0)-f(tx)}{x}=b\Rightarrow (1-\frac{1}{t})\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)}{x}=b
So,f'(0) exists and is equal to \frac{bt}{t-1} .Are my thoughts right or am I wrong?
 
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If the first derivative exists at $0$ then by L'Hosiptal rule we have

$$ \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}= f'(0)-tf'(0) = b $$

$$f'(0)= \frac{b}{1-t}$$
 
ZaidAlyafey said:
If the first derivative exists at $0$ then by L'Hosiptal rule we have

$$ \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}= f'(0)-tf'(0) = b $$

$$f'(0)= \frac{b}{1-t}$$

And that is the only thing I have to say?So...because of the fact that $$ \frac{b}{1-t}\epsilon \mathbb{R}$$ ,$$ f'(0) $$ exists,and its value is $$ \frac{b}{1-t} $$ ?
 
evinda said:
Hello! :D
I am looking at this exercise:
Let f: (-a,a)\rightarrow \mathbb{R} continuous at 0.We suppose that for a t \epsilon (0,1) this condition is satisfied:

\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}=b

Show that f'(0) exists and find its value.

I thought that I could write it like that \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)+f(0)-f(tx)}{x}=b \Rightarrow \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)}{x}+\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(0)-f(tx)}{x}=b\Rightarrow (1-\frac{1}{t})\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(0)}{x}=b
So,f'(0) exists and is equal to \frac{bt}{t-1} .Are my thoughts right or am I wrong?

The mean value theorem extablishes that, given a function f(*) continuous in [a,b] and differentiable in (a,b), it exists a number c in (a,b) such that... $\displaystyle f^{\ '} (c) = \frac{f(b) - f(a)} {b - a}\ (1)$

Setting in (1) b=x and a= t x, if ...

$\displaystyle \lim_{ x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x} = \alpha\ (2)$

... is also...

$\displaystyle \lim_{ x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x\ (1 - t)} = \frac{\alpha}{1 - t} = f^{\ '}(0)\ (3)$

View attachment 1784

Merry Christmas from Serbia

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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chisigma said:
The mean value theorem extablishes that, given a function f(*) continuous in [a,b] and differentiable in (a,b), it exists a number c in (a,b) such that... $\displaystyle f^{\ '} (c) = \frac{f(b) - f(a)} {b - a}\ (1)$

Setting in (1) b=x and a= t x, if ...

$\displaystyle \lim_{ x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x} = \alpha\ (2)$

... is also...

$\displaystyle \lim_{ x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x\ (1 - t)} = \frac{\alpha}{1 - t} = f^{\ '}(0)\ (3)$

And which interval [a,b] do we take??
 
evinda said:
And which interval [a,b] do we take??

If You chose a= t x and b = x, then b-a = x (1 - t) and t x < c < x. If x tends to 0, then a, b and c tend to 0 and starting from...

$\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x} = \alpha\ (1)$

... You arrive at...

$\displaystyle f^{\ '} (0) = \frac{\alpha}{1 - t}\ (2)$

View attachment 1785

Merry Christmas from Serbia

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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chisigma said:
If You chose a= t x and b = x, then b-a = x (1 - t) and t x < c < x. If x tends to 0, then a, b and c tend to 0 and starting from...

$\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x) - f(t\ x)}{x} = \alpha\ (1)$

... You arrive at...

$\displaystyle f^{\ '} (0) = \frac{\alpha}{1 - t}\ (2)$

And [a,b]=[tx,x] should be \subseteq (-a,a) .Right?
 
evinda said:
And [a,b]=[tx,x] should be \subseteq (-a,a) .Right?

So,can I start like that:f is continuous in [a,b]\subseteq (-a,a) and differentiable in (a,b),so it exists a number c in (a,b) such that f&#039;(c)=\frac{f(b)-f(a)}{b-a}.
We select a=tx and b=x . ?
 
evinda said:
Let f: (-a,a)\rightarrow \mathbb{R} continuous at 0.We suppose that for a t \epsilon (0,1) this condition is satisfied:

\lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}=b

Show that f&#039;(0) exists and find its value.
ZaidAlyafey's comment shows that if $f'(0)$ exists then it is equal to $\dfrac b{1-t}.$ The snag with this, and with all the other comments, is that you are not told that $f$ is differentiable. You are not even told that it is continuous, except at the single point $0$. So you cannot use l'Hôpital's rule, or the mean value theorem, or any other result that requires differentiability, and you need to prove that $f$ is differentiable at $0$.

You are told that \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}=b. So given $\varepsilon>0$ there exists $\delta>0$ such that $$\left|\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x} - b\right| < \varepsilon$$ whenever $|x|<\delta.$ Therefore $$|f(x) - f(tx) - bx| < \varepsilon|x|.$$ Next, if $|x|<\delta$ then $|t^nx|<\delta$ for all $n\geqslant1$ (because $t<1$). So in the above inequality we can replace $x$ by $tx$, $t^2x,\ldots, t^{n-1}x,$ to get $$|f(tx) - f(t^2x) - btx| < \varepsilon t|x|,$$ $$|f(t^2x) - f(t^3x) - bt^2x| < \varepsilon t^2|x|,$$ $$\ldots$$ $$|f(t^{n-1}x) - f(t^nx) - bt^{n-1}x| < \varepsilon t^{n-1}|x|.$$ Now add those inequalities and use the triangle inequality, to get $$\left|\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\bigl(f(t^kx) - f(t^{k+1}x) - bt^kx\bigr)\right| \leqslant \sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\bigl|f(t^kx) - f(t^{k+1}x) - bt^kx\bigr| < \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} \varepsilon t^k|x|.$$ It follows, by summing the geometric and telescoping series, that $$\left| f(x) - f(t^nx) - \frac{b(1-t^n)x}{1-t} \right| < \frac{\varepsilon(1-t^n)|x|}{1-t}.$$ Now you can let $n\to\infty$ and use the facts that $t^nx\to0$ and $f$ is continuous at $0$, to deduce that $$\left| f(x) - f(0) - \frac{bx}{1-t}\right| \leqslant \frac{\varepsilon |x|}{1-t}.$$ After dividing through by $|x|$, you should be able to see that $f'(0)$ exists, and is equal to $\dfrac b{1-t}.$
 
  • #10
Opalg said:
ZaidAlyafey's comment shows that if $f'(0)$ exists then it is equal to $\dfrac b{1-t}.$ The snag with this, and with all the other comments, is that you are not told that $f$ is differentiable. You are not even told that it is continuous, except at the single point $0$. So you cannot use l'Hôpital's rule, or the mean value theorem, or any other result that requires differentiability, and you need to prove that $f$ is differentiable at $0$.

You are told that \lim_{x\rightarrow 0}\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x}=b. So given $\varepsilon>0$ there exists $\delta>0$ such that $$\left|\frac{f(x)-f(tx)}{x} - b\right| < \varepsilon$$ whenever $|x|<\delta.$ Therefore $$|f(x) - f(tx) - bx| < \varepsilon|x|.$$ Next, if $|x|<\delta$ then $|t^nx|<\delta$ for all $n\geqslant1$ (because $t<1$). So in the above inequality we can replace $x$ by $tx$, $t^2x,\ldots, t^{n-1}x,$ to get $$|f(tx) - f(t^2x) - btx| < \varepsilon t|x|,$$ $$|f(t^2x) - f(t^3x) - bt^2x| < \varepsilon t^2|x|,$$ $$\ldots$$ $$|f(t^{n-1}x) - f(t^nx) - bt^{n-1}x| < \varepsilon t^{n-1}|x|.$$ Now add those inequalities and use the triangle inequality, to get $$\left|\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\bigl(f(t^kx) - f(t^{k+1}x) - bt^kx\bigr)\right| \leqslant \sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\bigl|f(t^kx) - f(t^{k+1}x) - bt^kx\bigr| < \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} \varepsilon t^k|x|.$$ It follows, by summing the geometric and telescoping series, that $$\left| f(x) - f(t^nx) - \frac{b(1-t^n)x}{1-t} \right| < \frac{\varepsilon(1-t^n)|x|}{1-t}.$$ Now you can let $n\to\infty$ and use the facts that $t^nx\to0$ and $f$ is continuous at $0$, to deduce that $$\left| f(x) - f(0) - \frac{bx}{1-t}\right| \leqslant \frac{\varepsilon |x|}{1-t}.$$ After dividing through by $|x|$, you should be able to see that $f'(0)$ exists, and is equal to $\dfrac b{1-t}.$

I understand!Thank you very much! :D
 

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