Show that the two functions are identical

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Functions
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the identity of two functions, \( g \) and \( h \), given certain conditions involving compositions with another function \( f \). Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate that \( g \equiv h \), focusing on proof by contradiction and the implications of the function compositions.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests starting with the definitions of the functions and the given conditions, questioning if their approach is correct.
  • Another participant proposes a proof by contradiction, stating that if \( g \not\equiv h \), there must exist a \( y \in B \) such that \( g(y) \neq h(y) \).
  • A participant elaborates on the contradiction approach, introducing variables \( x_1 = g(y) \) and \( x_2 = h(y) \), and explores the implications of \( x_1 \neq x_2 \).
  • Further discussion includes the assertion that since \( f(x_1) \neq f(x_2) \), it follows that the corresponding \( y_1 \) and \( y_2 \) must also be different.
  • Another participant questions the continuity of the argument, linking back to the functions and their compositions, and suggesting that \( g(f(x_2)) = g(y) = x_1 \).
  • Finally, a participant concludes that the contradiction arises from \( x_2 = x_1 \), affirming the earlier claims about the functions being identical.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants explore a proof by contradiction but do not reach a consensus on the final steps of the argument. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of the proof.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the functions and their domains, which are not explicitly stated. The implications of the function compositions are also dependent on the properties of \( f \), \( g \), and \( h \), which are not fully explored.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

For the functions $f:A\rightarrow B$, $g:B\rightarrow A$ and $h:B\rightarrow A$ it holds that $(g\circ f)(x)=x, \ \forall x\in A$ and $(f\circ h)(x)=x, \ \forall x\in B$. Show that it holds that $g\equiv h$.

I don't really have an idea how to show that.

Let $x\in A$. Then $(g\circ f)(x)=x \Rightarrow g(f(x))=x$. Then $f(x)\in B$.
We have that $(f\circ h)(x)=x, \ \forall x\in B$. Therefore $f(x)=(f\circ h)(f(x))$.

Is this the correct way to start? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hey mathmari!

How about a proof by contradiction?
That is, suppose $g\not\equiv h$, then there must be an $y\in B$ such that $g(y)\ne h(y)$, mustn't it? (Thinking)

Suppose we let $x_1 = g(y)$ and $x_2=h(y)$.
Then $x_1,x_2\in A$ and $x_1\ne x_2$.
Can we find a contradiction? (Sweating)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
How about a proof by contradiction?
That is, suppose $g\not\equiv h$, then there must be an $y\in B$ such that $g(y)\ne h(y)$, mustn't it? (Thinking)

Suppose we let $x_1 = g(y)$ and $x_2=h(y)$.
Then $x_1,x_2\in A$ and $x_1\ne x_2$.
Can we find a contradiction? (Sweating)

Let $x_1,x_2\in A$ with $x_1\ne x_2$.

We have that $(g\circ f)(x_1)=x_1 \Rightarrow g(f(x_1))=x_1$ and $(g\circ f)(x_2)=x_2 \Rightarrow g(f(x_2))=x_2$. Since $x_1\neq x_2$ it must be $f(x_1)\neq f(x_2)$.

We have that $f(x_1), f(x_2)\in B$. It holds that $x_1=h(y_1)$ and $x_2=h(y_2)$, for some $y_1, y_2\in B$. Since $f(x_1)\neq f(x_2)$, i.e. $f(h(y_1))\neq f(h(y_2))$, it follows that $y_1\neq y_2$. Is this correct so far? How could we continue? I got stuck right now. (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Let $x_1,x_2\in A$ with $x_1\ne x_2$.

We have that $(g\circ f)(x_1)=x_1 \Rightarrow g(f(x_1))=x_1$ and $(g\circ f)(x_2)=x_2 \Rightarrow g(f(x_2))=x_2$. Since $x_1\neq x_2$ it must be $f(x_1)\neq f(x_2)$.

We have that $f(x_1), f(x_2)\in B$. It holds that $x_1=h(y_1)$ and $x_2=h(y_2)$, for some $y_1, y_2\in B$. Since $f(x_1)\neq f(x_2)$, i.e. $f(h(y_1))\neq f(h(y_2))$, it follows that $y_1\neq y_2$. Is this correct so far? How could we continue? I got stuck right now.

Don't we have $x_2=h(y)$ so that $f(x_2)=f(h(y))=y$?
And therefore $g(f(x_2))=g(y)=x_1$? (Wondering)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Don't we have $x_2=h(y)$ so that $f(x_2)=f(h(y))=y$?
And therefore $g(f(x_2))=g(y)=x_1$? (Wondering)

Ahh yes! And since $g(f(x_2))=x_2$ it follows that $x_2=x_1$, which is a contradiction. (Malthe)

Thank you so much! (Yes)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K