Show that there exists a bijection

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    Bijection
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the existence of a bijection between an infinite set \(X\) and the set \(X \setminus \{x\}\) for some element \(x \in X\). Participants explore the necessity of the axiom of choice in constructing such a bijection, considering both countable and uncountable cases. The conversation includes various approaches and challenges regarding the proof's requirements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that to show the function \(f\) is bijective, it must be shown to be both surjective and injective, and questions if a right inverse is necessary.
  • Another participant expresses a preference to prove the claim without relying on the axiom of choice, indicating a desire to explore alternative methods.
  • A proposed function \(f(x) = 1 - \frac{1}{2^x}\) is mentioned as a potential bijection between the intervals \([0,1]\) and \([0,1)\), although its relevance is questioned.
  • A participant provides a construction for a bijection when \(X\) is countable, using enumeration of elements, and raises concerns about the necessity of the axiom of choice for selecting a countable subset from an uncountable set.
  • Some participants discuss whether the axiom of choice is necessary to choose a countable subset of \(X\), with differing opinions on the matter, including the possibility of making choices one at a time through induction.
  • A reference to external literature is made, suggesting that the axiom of choice is indeed needed to select a countable subset from an infinite set.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the axiom of choice in the proof, with some asserting it is required while others believe it is not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the role of the axiom of choice in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential limitations of the proof, particularly regarding the selection of a countable subset from an infinite set and the implications of using the axiom of choice.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $X$ be an infinite set and let $x\in X$. Show that there exists a bijection $f:X\to X\setminus \{x\}$. Use, if needed, the axiom of choice. To show that $f$ is bijective we have to show that it is surjective and injective.

The axiom of choice is equivalent to saying that, the function $f:X\to X\setminus \{x\}$ is surjective if and only if it has a right inverse. So we have to show that the function $f$ has a right inverse, correct?

Next we have to show that the function is injective.

Is that the way we have to proceed for the proof? Or should we do something else? (Wondering)
 
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I don't know much about the axiom of choice, but the goal is not to use it, but to prove the original claim. If in the construction one needs this axiom, hopefully we will see it.

How would you prove that there is a bijection between $[0,1]$ and $[0,1)$?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
How would you prove that there is a bijection between $[0,1]$ and $[0,1)$?

For that we use the function $f(x)=1-\frac{1}{2^x}$, or not? (Wondering)
 
I don't see how it helps. In fact, I don't think a bijection can be continuous here.
 
mathmari said:
Hey! :o

Let $X$ be an infinite set and let $x\in X$. Show that there exists a bijection $f:X\to X\setminus \{x\}$. Use, if needed, the axiom of choice.
Suppose to start with that $X$ is a countable set. Then its elements can be listed as $X = \{x_n:n\in\Bbb{N}\}$, with $x_1=x$. The map given by $f(x_n) = x_{n+1}$ is then a bijection from $X$ to $X\setminus \{x\}$.

Now suppose that $X$ is uncountable. Let $S$ be a countable subset of $X$, with $x\in S$. As before, we can enumerate the elements of $S$ as $S = \{x_n:n\in\Bbb{N}\}$, with $x_1=x$. The map given by $$f(t) = \begin{cases}x_{n+1}&\text{ if }t = x_n\in S,\\t&\text{ if }t \notin S,\end{cases}$$ is again a bijection from $X$ to $X\setminus \{x\}$.

You now have to decide whether the Axiom of Choice has crept into the proof. The danger point is the instruction "Let $S$ be a countable subset of $X$." Is it possible to "choose" a countable subset of $X$ without using the Axiom of Choice?
 
Opalg said:
You now have to decide whether the Axiom of Choice has crept into the proof. The danger point is the instruction "Let $S$ be a countable subset of $X$." Is it possible to "choose" a countable subset of $X$ without using the Axiom of Choice?

I think that the axiom of choice is necessary here to "choose" a countable subset of $X$. Is that correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
I think that the axiom of choice is necessary here to "choose" a countable subset of $X$. Is that correct? (Wondering)
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that the Axiom of Choice is not needed here. The sequence $x_1,\;x_2,\;x_3,\ldots$ forming the set $S$ can be chosen one element at a time, using induction (which can be done within the basic Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory). The Axiom of Choice is only needed when an infinite number of choices have to be made simultaneously.
 
Opalg said:
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that the Axiom of Choice is not needed here. The sequence $x_1,\;x_2,\;x_3,\ldots$ forming the set $S$ can be chosen one element at a time, using induction (which can be done within the basic Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory). The Axiom of Choice is only needed when an infinite number of choices have to be made simultaneously.

Can we do that in that way because the subset is countable? (Wondering)
 
The book "Basic Set Theory" by A. Shen and N. K. Vereshchagin and this question from StackExchange say that the axiom of choice is needed to select a countable subset of an infinite set.
 

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