Similarities / diffs between diffusion & wave propagation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the similarities and differences between diffusion and wave propagation, particularly in relation to their governing differential equations and the nature of their solutions. Participants explore the mathematical representations of both phenomena and their implications in physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the diffusion equation is first order in time, while the wave equation is second order, which leads to different types of solutions.
  • One participant argues that the solution to the diffusion equation can be interpreted as a propagating wave that is attenuated with distance.
  • Another participant contends that the wave equation does not permit attenuating solutions and emphasizes that solutions must be of the form f(x ± vt).
  • A participant highlights the concept of time-reversal symmetry in the wave equation, indicating that both forward and backward propagating waves are possible solutions, unlike in the diffusion equation.
  • It is proposed that the diffusion equation represents irreversible processes, such as heat conduction, which cannot occur in reverse, aligning with the second law of thermodynamics.
  • Some participants discuss the dissipative nature of the attenuating "wave," suggesting that it involves energy transfer into other modes and is a solution of the diffusion equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the solutions to the diffusion and wave equations, particularly regarding the interpretation of the solutions and the implications of time-reversal symmetry. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of wave solutions and the physical interpretations of the equations. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical intricacies involved in the relationships between the equations and their solutions.

philmolz
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Hi,

I'm a second year undergrad and we've covered the heat equation,

\begin{equation}
∇^{2}\Psi = \frac{1}{c^{2}}\frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial t^2}
\end{equation}

and the wave equation,

\begin{equation}
D∇^{2}u= \frac{\partial u}{\partial t}
\end{equation}

in our differential equations course. Both Diffusion and wave propagation have wave like solutions, for example,

\begin{equation}
u= Ce^{-\sqrt{w/2D} x } \sin{(\sqrt{w/2D} x - wt)}
\end{equation}
\begin{equation}
\Psi = \Psi_{0} e^{i(kx-wt)}
\end{equation}

but are quite different phenomena. Could someone briefly explain the similarities/ differences in the phenomena and the solutions and how this relates to the differential equations please? Thanks.
 
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First, the difference in the equations themselves: The diffusion equation is first order in time, whereas the wave equation is second order. Now the solutions. The solution (3) to the diffusion equation is not a propagating wave, and is not a solution to the wave equation. Similarly, the solution (4) to the wave equation is not a solution of the diffusion equation.
 
That's great, thanks, but I thought (3) is a propagating wave that is attenuated with distance (propagating wave enveloped by a decaying exponential). Also, I was wondering what the physical difference between the two phenomena is that leads to the difference in the equations, ie why we don't just have a simple propagating wave solution for heat diffusion?
 
The wave equation (1) does not allow an attenuating solution. You can check that by substituting the attenuating function (3) into (1). Any solution of the wave equation is of the form f(x ± vt). The decaying solution is not of that form.
The difference between the two equations (and their solutions) is in time-reversal symmetry:
In equation (1), if you change t to - t, the equation is the same. That translates to the fact (easy to check) that both a forward propagating wave (unattenuated), and a backward propagating wave are solutions of the same equation, and are actually possible phenomena. You see both waves happening all the time.
The diffusion equation (2), on the other hand, is not invariant under time reversal. It represents a macroscopic irreversible process, for example, heat conduction from a high temperature region to a low temperature region, spreading of a drop of ink through a body of water, etc. these processes never happen in the reverse direction. These are inherently dissipative processes. The reverse processes (conduction from low to high temperature, the ink drop gathering back together) would violate the second law of thermodynamics. They are not solutions of the diffusion equation.
The attenuating "wave" is actually a dissipative process, in which energy is transferred from the "wave" into several other modes. That process is also irreversible, and is a solution of the diffusion equation.
 

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