Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Simple gear pair: efficiency and output torque

  1. Jul 15, 2017 #1
    upload_2017-7-15_14-43-5.png
    Hi. I have a question about output torque and efficiency of a simple gear pair as shown on the picture. So, I have a pinion and a gear. I give an input torque Tp in the clockwise direction. Therefore, the pinion will rotate with ωp angular velocity in clockwise and the gear ωg in counter-clockwise. Then, I apply a load Tl in the opposite direction of the gear motion (clockwise direction). The gear is still rotating in the counter-clockwise. I neglect the friction between the gear mesh, but I consider the bearing friction both in pinion cp*ωp and gear cg*ωg. The moments of inertia of the pinion and the gear are Ip and Ig, respectively. My question is what the output torque To is because I want to find the efficiency of this gear pair. Thank you very much.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 15, 2017 #2
    @CWatters if To = Tl, I would not get a correct efficiency η.
    η = Po/Pi = To ωg/(Tp ωp) = Tl ωg/(Tp ωp)

    we know that rg ωg = rp ωp and ωg/ωp = rp/rg, so

    η = Tl rp/(Tp rg)

    In this equation, we can see that Tl/Tp has to be rg/rp in order to have η = 1. If I don't have Tl/Tp close to rg/rp, the efficiency could be much less than 1, for example 0.2, which doesn't make sense.
     
  4. Jul 16, 2017 #3

    CWatters

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    If Tl <> TO the system accelerates (decelerates) putting energy into (removing energy from) the angular momentum of the gears. Load also takes more/less power. That's where the missing energy goes (comes from) if n <> 1.

    What happens if Tl >> TO ? Which end is driving which?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  5. Jul 16, 2017 #4
    Thanks again for your reply. If Tl >> To, I believe the gear will drive the pinion in the load direction. However, I'm only interested in the case where the load is small such that the pinion still drives the gear. Just to confirm, did you think that my analysis on the efficiency when To = Tl correct?
     
  6. Jul 16, 2017 #5

    CWatters

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Yes.






    .
     
  7. Jul 16, 2017 #6

    CWatters

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Regarding friction..

    Without friction
    To = Tp * rg/rp

    With friction in the bearings..
    To = ((Tp - cp*ωp) * rg/rp) - cg*ωg
     
  8. Jul 16, 2017 #7
    Thanks for your reply. I simulated your To with friction in the bearings in Simulink, but To is incorrect. Here are the results. So, I drive the pinion for a SFUDS (simplified federal urban driving schedule). rg/rp =3. The first figure is the angular velocities of both pinion and gear. We can see that the pinion turns 3 times faster than the gear. The second figure is the torque. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks again. I really appreciate your help! :)

    upload_2017-7-16_12-25-44.png
    upload_2017-7-16_12-28-50.png
     
  9. Jul 16, 2017 #8

    CWatters

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Sorry I've never used Simulink. Clearly something is wrong as you are applying an input torque and getting no (or very little) output torque. Is there a load?
     
  10. Jul 16, 2017 #9

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The problem is over defined for the steady state case and under defined for the transient case .

    Just for starters which case is it that are you looking at ?

    In any case I strongly suggest that you use simple hand calculations for this problem rather than Simulink .
     
  11. Jul 16, 2017 #10
    Yes, there is. Basically I derived the equation of motion of the simple gear by Lagrange's equation, then find the time response. I have tried three other options for To. Could you check it on the attached brief write-up? Thanks a lot CWatters!
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jul 16, 2017 #11
    Hi Nidum. Thanks for your reply. Sorry, I should've said that I'm looking at the transient case. Why is it under defined?

    I've done simple hand calculations. I use Simulink to validate it.
     
  13. Jul 16, 2017 #12

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I don't want to back track through what you have done so far . We'll start afresh using proper engineering principles .

    So action the first : Show me two free body diagrams - one for each gear . Show all relevant information on each diagram .
     
  14. Jul 16, 2017 #13

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    -- and use some good sketching software for the diagrams if you can .
     
  15. Jul 16, 2017 #14
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Jul 16, 2017 #15
    sorry, I don't have experience of sketching software for these diagrams. I will learn it though. Thanks.
     
  17. Jul 16, 2017 #16

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The inertial reaction torques are missing - the gears have moments of inertia and they are accelerating ?

    Best not to mix tangential forces and torques . Use only torques when you re-draw the diagrams .
     
  18. Jul 16, 2017 #17
    upload_2017-7-16_15-38-39.png

    Yes, the gears have moments of inertia and they are accelerating. Please see the revised diagram, I hope this one is clearer. Tr is the reaction torque.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Jul 16, 2017 #18

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The reaction torques are in general going to be different for the two gears ?

    Also we need a way to define the gear ratio
     
  20. Jul 16, 2017 #19
    Question: The reaction torques are the product of the internal constraint force F and the gear/pinion radius, right? if so, yes, they're different due to different radius.

    The gear ratio is ωp/ωg = rg/rp
     
  21. Jul 16, 2017 #20

    Nidum

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I was referring to the inertial reaction torques as mentioned in my previous post .

    Anyway we have what we need now . It's late here so I am signing off for tonight . Talk to you tomorrow .
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted



Similar Discussions: Simple gear pair: efficiency and output torque
  1. Gear Torque Basics (Replies: 18)

  2. Motor Torque/Gearing (Replies: 0)

Loading...