Simple geometric series question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a geometric series question, specifically focusing on deriving the mean of a series of integers from 1 to N. Participants explore different methods to arrive at the mean, including the use of geometric series formulas and manipulation of terms within the series.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for the mean and attempts to derive it rigorously by expanding the series.
  • Another participant suggests not replacing all terms in the series but only the first half to facilitate cancellation.
  • A participant expresses confusion over the final result, noting discrepancies in their calculations that lead to different outcomes.
  • There is a mention of an arithmetic sequence, indicating a possible misunderstanding of the series type.
  • A later reply indicates that a breakthrough was achieved after stepping away from the problem, suggesting a change in perspective helped resolve the issue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the method to derive the mean, with some expressing confusion and others providing different approaches. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to achieve the correct result.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the steps leading to the final answer, particularly regarding the presence of the +1 in the mean calculation. There are also unresolved aspects related to the manipulation of terms within the series.

FeynmanFtw
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Take the case for the mean:

<br /> \bar{x} = \frac{1}{N} \Big( \sum_{i=1}^Ni \Big)<br />

If we simply use the formula for the sum of a geometric series, we get

\bar{x} = \frac{N}{2} (2a + (N - 1)d)

where a and d both equal 1, so we simply get the result

\bar{x} = \frac{1}{2} (N + 1)

What I've been trying to do is to get the same result by being more rigorous, in that I've attempted to expand the series, i.e.

<br /> \bar{x} = \frac{1}{N} (1 + 2 + 3 + ... + N)<br />

and replace the terms with the appropriate expressions using N, for example 1 and 2 would be N-(N-1) and N-(N-2) respectively, and so forth. Unfortunately I just keep going round in circles and never achieve the correct result.

Am I wasting my time? Or have I simply not seen the next step?
 
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FeynmanFtw said:
and replace the terms with the appropriate expressions using N, for example 1 and 2 would be N-(N-1) and N-(N-2) respectively, and so forth. Unfortunately I just keep going round in circles and never achieve the correct result.

The idea is to not replace all the terms, but only have the terms. For example ##2## gets replaced by ##N - (N - 2)##, but we don't want to replace the later term ##N-2##. The terms will cancel out then.
 
micromass said:
The idea is to not replace all the terms, but only have the terms. For example ##2## gets replaced by ##N - (N - 2)##, but we don't want to replace the later term ##N-2##. The terms will cancel out then.


I think I understand, but just to be sure, could you clarify further please?
 
FeynmanFtw said:
I think I understand, but just to be sure, could you clarify further please?

Clarify what? What is unclear about my explanation? Just take your sum ##1+2+3+...+N## and replace the first half of the terms in the way you indicated and leave the other half.
 
I'm still eagerly awaiting the question about a geometric series! :-p
 
micromass said:
Clarify what? What is unclear about my explanation? Just take your sum ##1+2+3+...+N## and replace the first half of the terms in the way you indicated and leave the other half.

Well I've already attempted what you've suggested, so it seems, though I cannot reach the final answer, as I've stated already.

I've tried going through the puzzle again and I sometimes obtain N/2 + 1, or N/2 as my final answer instead of (N+1)/2. I'm really confused as to where the +1 comes from. Somehow the final answer evades me.
 
FeynmanFtw said:
Well I've already attempted what you've suggested, so it seems, though I cannot reach the final answer, as I've stated already.

I've tried going through the puzzle again and I sometimes obtain N/2 + 1, or N/2 as my final answer instead of (N+1)/2. I'm really confused as to where the +1 comes from. Somehow the final answer evades me.

The idea is to do this:

1+2+3+4+5 = (5-4) + (5-3) + 3 + 4 + 5 = (5-4) + 4 + (5-3) + 3 + 5 = 5 + 5 + 5= 15
 
This looks like an arithmetic sequence to me.
 
Well, as is usually the case, I left the problem yesterday evening and decided to sleep on it. This morning I woke up and solved it within a minute. Don't you just love it when you hit a wall and just jump over it the next time you look at a problem from a different angle?

Thanks to all who helped.
 

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