Simple set theory problem - definition of a J-Tuple

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and understanding of a J-tuple as presented in Munkres' "Topology: Second Edition." Participants explore the implications of defining J-tuples as functions and seek clarification on how this relates to specific examples and the general concept of tuples in set theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the function \( x: J \to X \) and seeks concrete examples to understand how J-tuples operate.
  • Another participant defines a 3-tuple as a function \( f:\{1,2,3\}\rightarrow \mathbb{R} \) and provides examples of 3-tuples, illustrating how they can be represented as functions.
  • It is noted that the definition generalizes beyond the specific set \( \{1,2,3\} \) to sequences in \( \mathbb{R} \), which can be viewed as functions from \( \mathbb{N} \) to \( \mathbb{R} \).
  • A participant seeks confirmation on whether a set of 3-tuples can be interpreted as a set of functions, to which another participant agrees, reinforcing the idea that Munkres defines a J-tuple as a function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of tuples as functions, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the specific application of J-tuples and the examples provided. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the clarity of the definition or its implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the examples provided, particularly regarding the mapping of elements in the context of J-tuples. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions and the potential for varying interpretations of tuples and functions.

Math Amateur
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On page 113 Munkres (Topology: Second Edition) defines a J-tuple as follows:

attachment.php?attachmentid=67873&stc=1&d=1395452460.jpg


I was somewhat perplexed when I tried to completely understand the function \ x \ : \ J \to X.

I tried to write down some specific and concrete examples but still could not see exactly how the function would work.

For example if J = \{1, 2, 3 \} and X was just the collection of all the letters of the alphabet i.e.

X = \{ a, b, c, ... \ ... \ z \} then ...

... obviously a map like 1 --> a, 2 --> d, 3 --> h does not work as the intention, I would imagine is to have a mapping which specifies a number of triples ... but how would this work?

Can someone either correct my example or give a specific concrete example that works.

Would appreciate some help.

Peter
 

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Let's say ##X=\mathbb{R}##. The usual definition of a ##3##-tuple is just ##(x_1,x_2,x_3)## where each ##x_i\in \mathbb{R}##. For example ##(1,1,1)## and ##(2,1,2)## are ##3##-tuples.

This definition sees every ##3##-tuple as a function ##f:\{1,2,3\}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##. Indeed, the ##3##-tuple ##(x_1,x_2,x_3)## is presented as the function ##f## such that ##f(k) = x_k##. So for example, the ##3##-tuple ##(1,1,1)## is the constant function ##f(k)=1##, while ##(2,1,2)## is presented by the function ##f(1) = 2##, ##f(2)=1##, ##f(3) = 2##.

This generalizes beyond ##\{1,2,3\}## of course. If you're familiar with a sequence in ##\mathbb{R}##, then you know that this is just a function ##\mathbb{N}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##. This is thus simply an ##\mathbb{N}##-tuple.
 
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micromass said:
Let's say ##X=\mathbb{R}##. The usual definition of a ##3##-tuple is just ##(x_1,x_2,x_3)## where each ##x_i\in \mathbb{R}##. For example ##(1,1,1)## and ##(2,1,2)## are ##3##-tuples.

This definition sees every ##3##-tuple as a function ##f:\{1,2,3\}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##. Indeed, the ##3##-tuple ##(x_1,x_2,x_3)## is presented as the function ##f## such that ##f(k) = x_k##. So for example, the ##3##-tuple ##(1,1,1)## is the constant function ##f(k)=1##, while ##(2,1,2)## is presented by the function ##f(1) = 2##, ##f(2)=1##, ##f(3) = 2##.

This generalizes beyond ##\{1,2,3\}## of course. If you're familiar with a sequence in ##\mathbb{R}##, then you know that this is just a function ##\mathbb{N}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##. This is thus simply an ##\mathbb{N}##-tuple.

Thanks micromass, been through your post carefully ... just to be sure ...

You write

"This definition sees every ##3##-tuple as a function ##f:\{1,2,3\}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##."

... ... so in defining a set of triples or 3-tuples we are dealing with a set of functions, one function for every 3-tuple ... is that correct?

(Mind you I guess it is as Munkres was defining a (one) J-tuple ... rather than a function that described a set f J-tuples ,,,)

Peter
 
Math Amateur said:
Thanks micromass, been through your post carefully ... just to be sure ...

You write

"This definition sees every ##3##-tuple as a function ##f:\{1,2,3\}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}##."

... ... so in defining a set of triples or 3-tuples we are dealing with a set of functions, one function for every 3-tuple ... is that correct?

One ##3##-tuple can be seen as one function. So yes, a set of ##3##-tuples can be seen as a set of functions this way.

(Mind you I guess it is as Munkres was defining a (one) J-tuple ... rather than a function that described a set f J-tuples ,,,)

Indeed, Munkres defined a ##J##-tuple simply as a function.
 
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