Simple topology problem involving continuity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the continuity and closedness of a specific map described in an example from James Munkres' book on topology. Participants explore how to rigorously demonstrate these properties using definitions and theorems from topology.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion about how to apply the definition of continuity to show that the map p is continuous, asking for practical demonstration methods.
  • Peter similarly questions how to prove that the map p is a closed map, seeking clarification on the application of the relevant definition.
  • One participant suggests using the epsilon-delta definition of continuity for maps between metric spaces, indicating that this might simplify the demonstration of continuity compared to the open set definition.
  • This participant also notes that proving closedness requires working with closed sets and mentions the existence of theorems that can help establish whether a map is closed.
  • Another participant acknowledges the helpfulness of previous posts, indicating a collaborative atmosphere in seeking clarity on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best methods to demonstrate continuity and closedness, with no consensus reached on a single approach. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific application of definitions to the map p.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of definitions and theorems in topology, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the application of these concepts to the specific example in question.

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Example 1 in James Munkres' book, Topology (2nd Edition) reads as follows:

attachment.php?attachmentid=67838&stc=1&d=1395315123.jpg


Munkres states that the map p is 'readily seen' to be surjective, continuous and closed.

My problem is with showing (rigorously) that it is indeed true that the map p is continuous and closed.

Regarding the continuity of a function Munkres says the following on page 102:

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Let X and Y be topological spaces. A function f \ : \ X \to Y is said to be continuous if for each open subset V of Y, the set f^{-1} (V) is an open subset of X.

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Yes ... fine ... but how do we use such a definition to prove or demonstrate the continuity of p in the example?

Can someone show me how we use the definition (or some theorems) in practice to demonstrate/ensure continuity?

I have a similar issue with showing p to be a closed map.

On page 137 Munkres writes the following:

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A map p "is said to be a closed map if for each closed set A of X the set p(A) is closed in Y"

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Again, I understand the definition, I think, but how do we use it to indeed demonstrate/prove the closed nature of the particular map p in Munkres example?

Hope someone can help clarify the above issues?

Peter
 

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Okay, suppose U is open in [0, 2]. We want to show that f^{-1}(U) is an open set in [0, 1]\cup [2, 3].

Define A= f^{-1}(U)\cap [0, 1] and B= f^{-1}\cap [2, 3]. If both A and B are open then their union, f^{-1}(U) is open.

So we need to show that A and B are open. Let y be in U. Then either y= 1 or y= 0, or y= 2, or y is in (0, 1), or y is in (1, 2].

1) if y= 1, y= 1= f(1)= f(2)

2) if y= 0, y= 0= f(0)

3) if y= 2, y= 2= f(3)

Those are "endpoints" of intervals so any open set about them is of the form [0, x) or [x, 1) in [0, 1] or [x, 2) in [1, 2].

2) if y in (0, 1) then there exist x in (0, 1) such that f(x)= x= y.

3) if y in (1, 3) then there exist x in (2, 3) such that f(x)= x- 1= y.
 
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In this case, you can check continuity like you did in analysis: with epsilon-delta definitions.

So in topology, if you encounter a map between metric spaces, you can just check the epsilon-delta definition of continuity. You don't need to work with open sets here. In fact, I think it's better to always avoid the open set definition whenever it is possible.

So if you know continuity from analysis well, then you should have no problems with the topological definition.

Closedness of maps is a different issue. There you indeed need to work with the closed sets. Luckily, there are some nice theorems which allow us to conclude that a map is closed. In fact, closedness as a concept is important because we care about these theorems. It's not like it's of independent interest, like continuity.
 
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Thanks HallsofIvy and micromass ... your posts were extremely helpful

Peter
 

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