Skin exposure with 35S Methionine?

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    Radiation Safety
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around safety concerns related to skin exposure to 35S methionine, a radioactive substance used in protein labeling during electrophoresis. Participants share their experiences and seek clarity on the risks associated with accidental contact, as well as the adequacy of existing safety protocols in laboratory settings.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern after accidentally touching a gel containing 35S methionine, noting mixed messages about the safety of such exposure.
  • Some participants suggest that the Environmental Health and Safety (EHS) department should provide clear safety protocols and guidelines regarding handling radioactive materials.
  • Another participant mentions that their lab's safety handbook emphasizes wearing personal protective equipment (PPE) and contacting radiation services for major spills, but acknowledges that some lab members do not follow these protocols.
  • A participant highlights a culture of complacency regarding safety practices in their lab, contrasting it with their previous experiences in more safety-conscious environments.
  • Some participants reference the MSDS sheet for 35S methionine, indicating that the exposure is likely not problematic, but caution against making a habit of such contact.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of enforcement of PPE procedures among students and staff, with a participant questioning why safety protocols are not being adhered to or enforced.
  • Anecdotal evidence is shared regarding a fatal incident in the Air Force due to complacency, emphasizing the potential consequences of neglecting safety protocols.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a lack of consensus regarding the safety of skin exposure to 35S methionine and the adequacy of current safety practices in laboratories. While some believe the exposure is minimal, others emphasize the importance of strict adherence to safety protocols.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that there are varying levels of compliance with safety protocols in different labs, and that the understanding of risks associated with radioactive materials may differ among individuals based on their experiences and training.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to laboratory personnel, students working with radioactive materials, and those involved in safety management in research environments.

ProfuselyQuarky
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I ran a gel on electrophoresis that had proteins that were radio-labeled with 35s methionine, and in the process of imaging the gel (after 36 hr exposure on phosphor screen) I accidentally grabbed it with my bare hand. I'm getting very mixed messages regarding whether this is okay or not. Thoughts?
 
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Doc Al said:
Moderator's Note: Thread moved here for better responses. (Disclaimer: We cannot provide medical diagnoses. If you are concerned about health or safety issues, always consult with a doctor.)
yeah for the record I'm not looking for medical advice, there just seems to be lack of consensus in regards to whether that degree of radiation exposure is problematic or not (and what it does). I want to know what the real answer is
 
Your protocols and Environmental Health and Safety department should specify what safe procedures/practices are, how to deal with excursions from that and what the risks are. What, exactly, do they say?
 
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russ_watters said:
Your protocols and Environmental Health and Safety department should specify what safe procedures/practices are, and how to deal with excursions from that. What, exactly, do they say?
Our safety handbook in lab just specifies to wear appropriate PPE whilst dealing with 35s Met and to contact radiation services on campus should there be a major spill (which would never happen since the experiment is dealing with very small volumes).

Usually I'm wearing gloves, however there are numerous people who will poke at the gels with their bare fingers, which led to the conversation about how bad it actually is since I touched it by accident.

Edit: And someone from health and safety periodically checks the radiation levels on our lab surfaces so it's not like this practice is causing a health hazard
 
Also, yes, this should probably be a bigger conversation on lab safety here since many people here function with the attitude of "technically the safety protocol is xyz but I've been doing this for 10 years so it doesn't really matter" but then a newer person comes along and becomes confused in regards to what they should be actually doing since the most senior people are pretty dismissive lol
 
ProfuselyQuarky said:
Also, yes, this should probably be a bigger conversation on lab safety here since many people here function with the attitude of "technically the safety protocol is xyz but I've been doing this for 10 years so it doesn't really matter" but then a newer person comes along and becomes confused in regards to what they should be actually doing since the most senior people are pretty dismissive lol
Reminds me of a recent dental exam where the technician literally held the x-ray detector in place in my mouth by hand while imaging with an x-ray gun. Her excuse was, "It's very safe and I've already had kids anyways." I was wearing a full-torso lead apron and worked around nuclear weapons for about a decade in the Air Force. My fiancé is a nuclear and radiation safety inspector for the state. Both of use were appalled.

ProfuselyQuarky said:
I ran a gel on electrophoresis that had proteins that were radio-labeled with 35s methionine, and in the process of imaging the gel (after 36 hr exposure on phosphor screen) I accidentally grabbed it with my bare hand. I'm getting very mixed messages regarding whether this is okay or not. Thoughts?
35s methionine is a beta emitter, apparently a low-energy beta emitter at that. Per the safety sheet here: Dose to live skin: Minimal external hazard, since beta particles barely penetrate the outer dead skin layer

You're probably fine, but with anything radioactive I wouldn't make a habit of it.
 
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https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/sites/ehs.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf/rso/data_sheet_s35.pdf
-- the MSDS sheet. In fact your exposure is very likely not a problem, per the MSDS sheet. You should learn about what these safety procedures are and follow them.

My question exactly: why the h*** are students, TA's and staff not following and/or enforcing PPE procedures?
@TeethWhitener and myself can vouch for workplace rules for PPE and safety in places like Los Alamos.

For example:
If what you have described happened in a DOE lab everyone involved would have been terminated and led offsite. Immediately.

If you end up working in research labs learning this stuff is not optional.
 
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jim mcnamara said:
https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/sites/ehs.oregonstate.edu/files/pdf/rso/data_sheet_s35.pdf
-- the MSDS sheet. In fact your exposure is very likely not a problem, per the MSDS sheet. You should learn about what these safety procedures are and follow them.

My question exactly: why the h*** are students, TA's and staff not following and/or enforcing PPE procedures?
@TeethWhitener and myself can vouch for workplace rules for PPE and safety in places like Los Alamos.

For example:
If what you have described happened in a DOE lab everyone involved would have been terminated and led offsite. Immediately.

If you end up working in research labs learning this stuff is not optional.
The PPE culture in this lab surprised me too to be honest. My old lab in undergrad was very serious about safety but that was in plant physiology and a lot of inarguably dangerous materials were used, so when I joined this lab I was a bit confused.

Extreme precaution is taken to protect samples from experiments but less so for general safety and the argument is often "it's not that bad". I could go in greater detail when it comes to very elementary safety protocol that is ignored. The people here are from extremely elite institutions (I often feel out of place), I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with it.

Good to know that PPE is taken very seriously elsewhere, I'm not going to relax in my own PPE lest bad habits are made for when I move on to somewhere new.

Edit: also thanks for the reassurance regarding the s35 met, I should probably start reading those guidelines for myself in greater detail
 
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We had a fatality at our sister shop at another base while I was in the air force. Of all things it was a simple bolt that held a cruise missile on its handling stand and the locking nut that kept it from loosening. The entire issue boiled down to laziness and complacency in that a simple locking nut wasn't being backed off before unscrewing a bolt. The end result was that upon tightening again, the locking nut would often be accidentally run up a small amount and would tighten before the bolt, making you believe the connection was solid. Over many, many cycles the bolt ended up with only a thread or two actually inside the threaded insert in the missile.

While loading a group of missiles onto a bomber pylon a few of the missiles occupy what is called a 'shoulder position' and have to be tilted at, say, a 30 degree angle. The missile in question was tilted, raised into place, and technicians moved in to attach it to the pylon and then disconnect the handling stand. Before this could happen the single thread or two holding the back end of the missile to the handling stand broke loose and the back end fell down and sideways and 3,000 lbs of missile impacted a technician in the temple. He died immediately.

Complacency kills.
 
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