So back to the question, what was the debris from?

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The discussion centers around the mysterious crash of Air France Flight 447, with participants expressing confusion and speculation about the debris found in the Atlantic Ocean. Initial reports indicated that the wreckage was not from the missing plane, leading to conflicting theories about the cause of the crash. An oil slick was found, but officials stated it did not originate from the Airbus, raising questions about its source. Some participants shared personal experiences related to grief and the search for closure, debating the significance of recovering bodies versus wreckage. The conversation also touched on the possibility of other debris being misidentified and the emotional complexities surrounding loss, particularly when bodies are not recovered. Theories about potential mid-air collisions and even alien involvement were humorously suggested, reflecting the mix of serious and light-hearted tones in the discussion. Ultimately, the need for clarity and evidence surrounding the crash remains a key concern among participants.
  • #31
moose said:
I would really like for this to deal with aliens. Make it happen Cyrus.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Like that episode of the X-files where the aliens freeze space and time of that airplane to get their radioactive thing-a-magigger back.

Anyway, I think they should leave the bodies to sea and do what they can to discover the wreckage. After sitting in salt water and possibly being eaten by sharks/fish a dead body probably won't be very recognizable. That's assuming it wasn't torn to pieces or burned up in the crash.

What parts of an airplane float besides the seat cushions?
 
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  • #32
Topher925 said:
What parts of an airplane float besides the seat cushions?

Running shoes will float. And they'll protect people's feet from decomposing.
 
  • #33
BobG said:
Running shoes will float. And they'll protect people's feet from decomposing.

Sick but, true...

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/healtheducation/bcs_maritime_mystery.html"
 
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  • #34
Borg said:
Sick but, true...

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/healtheducation/bcs_maritime_mystery.html"
Why you say "sick", it's "not" sick, it is fact, BobG always offers the best answers explaining how things are comprised of :smile:.
 
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  • #35
IwillBeGood said:
Why you say "sick", it's "not" sick, it is fact, BobG always offers the best answers explaining how things are comprised of :smile:.

Would eeewww be better?
 
  • #36
BobG said:
Running shoes will float. And they'll protect people's feet from decomposing.

Technically running shoes are not part of the plane.
 
  • #37
Topher925 said:
What parts of an airplane float besides the seat cushions?

I don't even know how long the seat cushions would float for. Luggage would likely float for a while, but this long after the crash, I don't know how much is likely to be found. I would expect a lot of stuff that might float for a short time might be waterlogged by now, and it's doubtful that if the plane went down in any way that could have allowed for survivors that they'd still be alive this many days later. I guess that would be the one reason to want to find the right debris field early on, just in case there were any survivors hanging onto floating seat cushions...the waters might be warm enough for them to survive a few days if the sharks didn't find them first. Since they really have no clue what happened to the plane, there is the chance it landed in a way that there were some survivors initially.
 
  • #38
Good luck finding a few suitcases in the ocean. Even if a tenth of the plane is floating, the chance of finding that debris is probably very very low.

Can it be conspiracy time now?
 
  • #39
moose said:
Can it be conspiracy time now?

How much do you want to bet that the alien abduction theories are already brewing?

IT'S JUST LIKE IN THE X-FILES!
 
  • #40
Ivan Seeking said:
How much do you want to bet that the alien abduction theories are already brewing?

They were assimilated!
 
  • #41
Ivan Seeking said:
How much do you want to bet that the alien abduction theories are already brewing?

IT'S JUST LIKE IN THE X-FILES!

I can only hope that someday the history channel will be on with some show about abductions and that they will talk about this.

"In 2009 Air France flight 447 suddenly disappeared with no warning. Not a shred of it has ever been found. Planes just don't disappear, there HAD to have been extraterrestrial involvement. A few pilots recalled seeing a bright flash of light around the time of the flights disappearance. I have no doubt in my mind that the plane was abducted by aliens"
 
  • #42
moose said:
I can only hope that someday the history channel will be on with some show about abductions and that they will talk about this.

"In 2009 Air France flight 447 suddenly disappeared with no warning. Not a shred of it has ever been found. Planes just don't disappear, there HAD to have been extraterrestrial involvement. A few pilots recalled seeing a bright flash of light around the time of the flights disappearance. I have no doubt in my mind that the plane was abducted by aliens"

I don't know if you have ever watched the UFO Hunters, but that one guy with the dark glasses and a hat... I think his name is Bill, is actually just that bad! I swear, he is the definitive example of a UFO NUT! Yes indeed, if they don't find the plane, I would put money down that we could easily predict a half dozen conspiracy theories... not to say that we should. :biggrin: But it is all so painfully predictable.
 
  • #43
Ivan Seeking said:
I don't know if you have ever watched the UFO Hunters, but that one guy with the dark glasses and a hat... I think his name is Bill, is actually just that bad! I swear, he is the definitive example of a UFO NUT! Yes indeed, if they don't find the plane, I would put money down that we could easily predict a half dozen conspiracy theories... not to say that we should. :biggrin: But it is all so painfully predictable.

He was precisely my motivation for what I wrote. He would always say things like "So we have proven without a doubt that it was built with extraterrestrial help 1000 years ago".

Once more is known about flight 447, this thread will get back on topic.
 
  • #44
Evo said:
I have to say if there was no doubt they died, a body would be meaningless. It would only be an issue if the person had just "disappeared" and there was no evidence that they were dead.

You've unwittingly identified the key issue. There is always a doubt. It gnaws at the soul. It consumes ones time in endless, depressing speculation. This is the thing for which the word 'closure' has come to represent the end of.

Now I understand this word.
 
  • #45
Phrak said:
You've unwittingly identified the key issue. There is always a doubt. It gnaws at the soul. It consumes ones time in endless, depressing speculation. This is the thing for which the word 'closure' has come to represent the end of.

Now I understand this word.

But if you had a family member on that flight, would you have doubt that your loved one was dead?

I wouldn't.

Edit: looks like a funny thing to say when you read my signature :smile: but I stand by it.
 
  • #46
Phrak said:
You've unwittingly identified the key issue. There is always a doubt. It gnaws at the soul. It consumes ones time in endless, depressing speculation. This is the thing for which the word 'closure' has come to represent the end of.

Now I understand this word.

Not really, not for me at least.
 
  • #47
lisab said:
But if you had a family member on that flight, would you have doubt that your loved one was dead?

I wouldn't.

Edit: looks like a funny thing to say when you read my signature :smile: but I stand by it.

If the plane was never found at all, then I would probably have doubts despite knowing otherwise. If the plane debris was found, then all doubt would be gone.
 
  • #48
moose said:
If the plane was never found at all, then I would probably have doubts despite knowing otherwise. If the plane debris was found, then all doubt would be gone.

Why would you have doubts: are there magical islands in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Also, how many people survive a crash from 35k + feet?
 
  • #49
Cyrus said:
Why would you have doubts: are there magical islands in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Also, how many people survive a crash from 35k + feet?

Never said the doubts would be rational.
 
  • #50
Cyrus said:
Why would you have doubts: are there magical islands in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Also, how many people survive a crash from 35k + feet?

If there was no debris found, how can you be sure they were not kidnapped by aliens and they are not alive in some other dimension?
 
  • #51
Cyrus said:
Why would you have doubts: are there magical islands in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Also, how many people survive a crash from 35k + feet?

The doubt is that without finding any evidence of debris from the plane, and with no radar coverage or communication from the flight after some sort of electrical fault, nobody knows that it just suddenly fell from the sky...that's an assumption that it crashed from 35k feet. There can remain doubt that it managed to glide into the water intact and there are survivors floating around in a life raft that hasn't been found yet (not an easy thing to find when you don't even know where to start looking). Though, we also know that even in that sort of "best case" scenario, without fresh water, time has run out. That won't stop the relatives of the victims from holding out hope longer.
 
  • #52
Ok, wait. From what I understand an oil slick was found with the debris, but was determined to possibly be too large to be from the Airbus. Where the heck did it come from then? I can maybe understand a ship chucking stuff overboard, but you wouldn't dump oil in the middle of the ocean

http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2009/06/search_for_flight_447_continue.html

Cardoso said a large oil slick spotted by search plane pilots was not from the Airbus, but that another slick of kerosene found may have been from the downed passenger jet.

"The oil was not from the plane because there wasn't oil of that quantity (on the plane) to cause that slick," he said.
 
  • #55
Cyrus said:
Why would you have doubts: are there magical islands in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Also, how many people survive a crash from 35k + feet?

You just need to know how to fall from an airplane. Actually, there are occasional survivors - Plane Fall Survivor Backs Serb Reformers.



Office_Shredder said:
Ok, wait. From what I understand an oil slick was found with the debris, but was determined to possibly be too large to be from the Airbus. Where the heck did it come from then? I can maybe understand a ship chucking stuff overboard, but you wouldn't dump oil in the middle of the ocean

People illegally dump waste in the ocean all the time. In fact, that's one of the causes of the http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVV_gQDsp1m8v7nPcumVc5McYV-Q pirate problem.
 
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  • #56
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  • #57
BobG said:
Actually, there are occasional survivors - Plane Fall Survivor Backs Serb Reformers.
Typically, when people are looking for "closure", it is due to an absence of evidence of anything to indicate a crash (or whatever). When someone just plain disappears, you have no idea what happened to them, so it isn't that unreasonable to hold out some hope. This is why it is so hard for the families of abduction victims. Even though the odds say that after a certain amount of time, they are probably dead, it isn't unreasonable to continue looking for them.

But a plane crash (where the plane plummets from 35,000 feet) isn't like that. A plane crash provides clear evidence that a person almost certainly died, even if the body isn't recoverable.
 
  • #58
Apparently bodies have now been found from the crashed plane: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8087303.stm

Bodies and debris have been found from the Air France plane which went missing over the Atlantic last Monday, the Brazilian air force has said...
 
  • #59
BobG said:
You just need to know how to fall from an airplane. Actually, there are occasional survivors - Plane Fall Survivor Backs Serb Reformers.

Umm...

# Survey landing locations.No parachute, eh? Bummer. Okay, now look down and take a good look at the ground. This may be frightening -- DON'T PANIC. If there are any bodies of water below, you want to steer clear of them. Water is the worst thing to hit. Look especially for hills -- the best way to land is by rolling down a hill. Large inflated crash mats are great, too, but chances are you won't find any handy.

This might be tough over an ocean

People illegally dump waste in the ocean all the time. In fact, that's one of the causes of the Somali pirate problem.

Enough oil to fill a trans-Atlantic flight's fuel tank? Where does this come from, and why is it waste?
 
  • #60
Moonbear said:
It depends on the family. For some, they just can't process that the person is really dead and let go of the hope that they might instead be crash landed on a deserted island and living out their own version of Gilligan's Island or Lost if they don't find a body...or at least confirm that the plane really wrecked.

Though, I hope they're carefully examining that NONE of that wreckage is from 447. A mid-air collision with an unregistered flight in an area without radar coverage is certainly more plausible as a reason for a crash than a lightning strike, or it's also possible that dumb luck landed the plane on a boat or ship when it hit the water, and debris are from something struck by the plane in addition to the plane. Otherwise, it seems there are not one, but two incidents to investigate...a bad enough storm to down a jet could have also capsized a boat in the same area (the flash someone else reported could have been a signal flare).
Not two incidents. The report I saw said was that it was flotsam that had been floating around for years. Just more junk that we've dumped into the sea.
 

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