So the question is:Do all galaxies contain super massive black holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether all galaxies contain supermassive black holes, exploring the relationship between galaxy formation and the presence of these black holes. Participants examine evidence, theories, and specific examples of galaxies, including elliptical and spiral types, while questioning the existence of definitive rules governing this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that most galaxies contain supermassive black holes, but it remains uncertain if all do.
  • One participant notes that evidence indicates supermassive black holes may have seeded galaxy formation in the early universe.
  • Another participant points out that out of five nearby larger galaxies, three do not contain supermassive black holes, specifically mentioning the Magellanic Clouds and Triangulum Galaxy.
  • There is mention of the M-Sigma relation, which connects the mass of elliptical galaxies to the mass of their central black holes, although some elliptical galaxies may not conform to this relationship.
  • A participant acknowledges a mistake in identifying Andromeda as a galaxy that follows the M-Sigma relation, clarifying it is a spiral galaxy.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of definitive proof regarding the presence of supermassive black holes in certain galaxies, with requests for supporting evidence for claims made in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that many galaxies likely contain supermassive black holes, but there is no consensus on whether this applies to all galaxies. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding specific examples and the existence of definitive rules.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the presence of black holes in certain galaxies are based on current evidence, but limitations in data and definitions are acknowledged. The discussion highlights the complexity and evolving nature of understanding galaxy formation and black hole presence.

shounakbhatta
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Hello All,

It says that, if we discover every galaxy, then there is a super massive black hole, present in each galactic centre.

Is there any physical rule for that?

I mean to say, a galaxy rotates with x,y,z...rules, the gravitational force is such and such...

So, the formation of the super massive black hole must following a rule according to the laws of nature. What is that?

Thanks for help.

-- Shounak
 
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Most Galaxies have a super massive Blackhole, as far as I know to date they are still not sure all galaxies have a super massive black hole. However I am not sure if that's changed yet or not. Not sure how to answer your other question as per a rule.
 
Mordred said:
Most Galaxies have a super massive Blackhole, as far as I know to date they are still not sure all galaxies have a super massive black hole. However I am not sure if that's changed yet or not. Not sure how to answer your other question as per a rule.

I agree w/ all of that and I would add that I AM sure that there has not as yet been any discovery of a "rule" regarding galaxy formation around super-massive black holes simply because that would be big news indeed and we would all have heard of it.

The evidence to date seems to be pointing that way and it will be interesting to see if any such rule does evolve out of the evidence as we accumulate more.
 
It appears super massive black holes are the rule with most galaxies. I'm unaware if it has been asserted for all galaxies. The evidence appears to suggest massive black holes seeded galaxy formation in the early universe.
 
Out of the 5 bigger nearby galaxies, 3 provably contain no supermassive black holes. Neither of the Magellanic Clouds contains a massive core. Triangulum does have a dense core - which consists of perfectly ordinary stars. It is proven that no massive black holes of over 3000 solar masses can exist there.
 
snorkack said:
Out of the 5 bigger nearby galaxies, 3 provably contain no supermassive black holes. Neither of the Magellanic Clouds contains a massive core. Triangulum does have a dense core - which consists of perfectly ordinary stars. It is proven that no massive black holes of over 3000 solar masses can exist there.

Interesting. Do you remember where you read that? Could you point me to something?

Thanks
 
Andromeda has a black at its' centre.
 
Hello,

Every bright elliptical galaxy is believed to contain a super massive black hole which is related by M-Sigma relation. The mass of these galaxies are co related to the mass of the black hole.

I made a mistake posting the name of Andromeda. It is a spiral galaxy, so it does not follow the M-Sigma relation.
As Chronos have rightly pointed out that it is seeded in the formation of the galaxies.

However it is still unclear with the M-Sigma relation that many elliptical galaxies do not contain black holes. Might be their masses are too low, with the value suggested by the M-Sigma relation...Or the data provided is insufficient to prove the presence of black hole.

Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical galaxy the 2nd.closest to Milky Way, but as per my reading it does not have a black hole.

I made a mistake by mentioning the name of Andromeda. It is a spiral galaxy and hence does not follow the M-Sigma relation.

Any further views...

-- Shounak
 
phinds said:
Interesting. Do you remember where you read that? Could you point me to something?

Thanks

Phinds,

This article seems to suggest that the object at the center of the Triangulum Galaxy is no more then 3,000 solar masses.
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0107359
 
  • #10
JonDE said:
Phinds,

This article seems to suggest that the object at the center of the Triangulum Galaxy is no more then 3,000 solar masses.
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0107359

Thanks for the post, but that article states an uncertainty up to 20,000 solar masses and they even say that they can't rule out similary galaxy formation to those that do have a supermassive BH.

I was looking for something definitive as stated by snorkack who said categorically "Out of the 5 bigger nearby galaxies, 3 provably contain no supermassive black holes". I'm interested in seeing the proof. I'm not doubting it, but neither am I convinced by a statement with no backup.
 

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