So when did people start to suspect that the neutrino had mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical context and evolving understanding of neutrino mass, particularly focusing on when the scientific community began to suspect that neutrinos might possess mass. It touches on theoretical developments from the 1930s through the 1980s, as well as the implications of neutrino oscillations.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a 1982 publication indicating that by 1972, neutrinos were considered massless, but by 1981, the notion of massive neutrinos was being discussed, raising questions about the timeline of this understanding.
  • Another participant suggests that theories regarding massive neutrinos began to emerge in the 1950s and 60s, with significant developments occurring in the 70s and 80s, but notes that most textbooks did not address massive neutrinos until the observation in 1998.
  • A third participant cites a letter from Pauli in the 1930s that postulated the existence of a massive neutrino, suggesting that the idea has historical roots dating back several decades.
  • One participant interprets the use of "perhaps" in the 1982 quote as indicating that while oscillations imply mass, it is not a requirement for all neutrinos.
  • Participants express interest in the historical slides shared, indicating a desire for further exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the timeline or implications of neutrino mass, with multiple competing views on when and how the idea of massive neutrinos gained traction in the scientific community.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of historical interpretations, including the dependence on definitions of mass and the evolving nature of theoretical frameworks regarding neutrinos. There are unresolved aspects regarding the implications of neutrino oscillations and their relationship to mass.

arivero
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Looking at Nucl.Phys. B194 (1982) 422 I read

"In 1972 there were two neutrinos and they were
both massless. Today we have three and perhaps all of them have
mass.
"

Hey, 1981 and neutrinos have mass? I was not even in the university. And in all the textbooks the neutrino was massless. So how is that they (Bardeen et al) at the Fermilab had already decided that at least some of them were massive?
 
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Physics news on Phys.org
http://www.pd.infn.it/~laveder/unbo..._oscillations-nobel-simposium-19-aug-2004.pdf

The theories were first starting be built from the 50-60's, with the 70-80's being the best [IMO]...

I think most of textbooks would avoid talking about massive neutrinos except for if they were specialized in those kind of theories (as theories). It wasn't until 1998 when this was finally observed in SuperKamiokande.
http://hitoshi.berkeley.edu/neutrino/PhysicsWorld.pdf

So I guess that's the reason your quote says "perhaps all of them have mass"
 
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The idea of a massive neutrino goes back to the 1930 Pauli letter postulating it: "Groessenordnung wie die
Elektronenmasse sein und jedenfalls nicht grosser als 0,01 Protonenmasse" - of order the electron mass and in any event less than 1% of the proton mass.
 
ChrisVer said:
So I guess that's the reason your quote says "perhaps all of them have mass"


Well, I read the "perhaps" as meaning that oscillations do not require mass for all of them.

The slides are very interesting, thanks for pointing them out!
 

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