Solving a Tricky Substitution with d^2x/dt^2

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the mathematical manipulation of derivatives, specifically the second derivative of a function with respect to time, using a substitution involving a new variable defined in terms of angular frequency. Participants explore the application of the chain rule and seek clarification on the steps involved in deriving a specific expression related to the second derivative.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces a substitution for time, defining \(\vartheta = (\Omega*t)/2\), and expresses the second derivative \(d^2x/dt^2\) in terms of \(\vartheta\).
  • The same participant derives the relationship \(d/dt = \Omega/2 * d/d\vartheta\) using the chain rule.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify the derivation of the expression \(d^2x/dt^2 = \Omega^2 / 4 * d^2x/d\vartheta^2\) but expresses confusion regarding the equations presented.
  • Participants discuss the manipulation of derivatives, including the interpretation of \(d\vartheta/dt\) and its square, with one participant suggesting that \((d\vartheta/dt)^2\) is an acceptable representation.
  • Further steps in the derivation are proposed, but the exact sequence and reasoning remain unclear to some participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the mathematical steps involved. There is no clear consensus on the derivation process, and some participants seek further clarification on specific steps.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of variables and the application of the chain rule, which may not be fully articulated. Some mathematical steps remain unresolved, leading to uncertainty in the derivation process.

strokebow
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Hi,

Firstly: This is not a homework Q. Check my previous posts, you will see the stuff i ask is for my own genuine learning.

Let:
\vartheta = (\Omega*t)/2

Now I have: d^2x/dt^2

And I want to sub in for t.

So:

d/dt = d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta
(Basic chain rule)

I can work out that: d\vartheta/dt = \Omega/2

So:

d/dt = \Omega/2 * d/d\vartheta

Now for the second derivative:

d^2/dt^2 = d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta * (d/dt)

Now, I already have an expression for d/dt = d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta

So I can sub this in and get:

d^2/dt^2 = d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta * d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta
Which is:
(correct me if I am wrong):
d^2/dt^2 = d\vartheta^2/dt^2 * d^2/d\vartheta^2

This is where I need the help of the experts :-)

The text I am trying to understand gives this:
d^2x/dt^2 = \Omega^2 / 4 * d^2x/d\vartheta^2

Any ideas how they have made that step... it seems like they have simply said:
d\vartheta/dt * d\vartheta/dt = (d\vartheta/dt)^2
Is this acceptable?
If \Omega = 2\pi*(1/t). Then its like saying:
d^2/dt^2 ((\Omega*t)/2) = \Omega^2 / 4 Any ideas/help?

thanks
 
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hi strokebow! :smile:

(try using the X2 button just above the Reply box :wink:)
strokebow said:
Let:
\vartheta = (\Omega*t)/2

d/dt = d\vartheta/dt * d/d\vartheta
(Basic chain rule)

The text I am trying to understand gives this:
d2x/dt2 = \Omega^2 / 4 * d^2x/d\vartheta^2

i don't really understand your equations :redface:

the way they got that is

d2x/dt2

= d/dt (dx/dt)

= {d/dθ (dx/dt)} dθ/dt

= {d/dθ (dθ/dt dx/dθ))} dθ/dt

= {(Ω/2 d2x/dθ2)} Ω/2 :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
= {d/dθ (dθ/dt dx/dθ))} dθ/dt

= {(Ω/2 d2x/dθ2)} Ω/2 :wink:

Hi,

Thanks you for your reply! :-)

The inbetweener steps would be . . . (?)

= {d/dθ (dθ/dt dx/dθ))} dθ/dt

= {d/dθ dx/dθ (dθ/dt )} dθ/dt

= {d/dθ dx/dθ (Ω/2)} Ω/2

= {d2x/(dθ)2 (Ω/2)} Ω/2

= {(Ω/2 d2x/dθ2)} Ω/2

yar?
 
yes.
 

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