Solving for nonlinear 2nd order DE

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter MathewsMD
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    2nd order Nonlinear
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for solving nonlinear second-order differential equations, specifically in the forms of y'' = y^2 and y'' = (y-1)^2. Participants explore various approaches, including integration techniques and the use of quadrature, while expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their methods and the implications of their findings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an initial attempt to separate the equations and integrate, expressing doubt about the validity of their approach and seeking clarification on the integration of second-order terms.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of "quadrature" and suggests defining v = dy/dt to transform the second-order equations into first-order forms, indicating a method to integrate the equations.
  • A third participant mentions that the equation y'' = y^2 can lead to solutions involving Weierstrass elliptic functions, referencing a specific text for further details.
  • One participant revisits their earlier solution, acknowledging an error and discussing the challenges of applying initial conditions to find constants in their solution, while also seeking alternative methods for simplification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the methods for solving the equations, with no consensus on a single approach or solution. There is acknowledgment of errors and uncertainties in the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of second-order nonlinear differential equations and the integration techniques required, highlighting unresolved mathematical steps and the complexity of applying initial conditions.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in nonlinear differential equations, mathematical methods for solving differential equations, and those seeking to understand the application of quadrature and elliptic functions in this context may find this discussion relevant.

MathewsMD
Messages
430
Reaction score
7
Given a DE in the general form of either y'' = y^2 or y'' = (y-1)^2, is there a general method to solve these?

I separated the equations to get y''(y^-2) = 1 and then integrated, which left me with (-y^-1)dy = (t + c)dt, and then integrated once more.

Is this correct so far? I have essentially split the d^2y/dt^2 terms and integrated w/ respect to each variable (i.e. dt on one side and dy on the other, leaving me w/ another dy and dt on each respective side still).

Honestly, this all just seems like poor mathematics and faulty reasoning since d^2y and dt^2 are single terms themselves, and must be integrated w/ respect to d^2y and dt^2 respectively, and not dy and dt, to my knowledge. This seems like a fundamental concept but besides splitting up the d^2y/dt^2 terms to differentiate, i don't quite see another method to solve for y in this case. Any methods or hints on ways to approach the question would be greatly appreciated! (I have not quite tackled second order, non linear DEs in my studies yet, but any information needed to answer the above problem is always welcome.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: worryingchem
Physics news on Phys.org
I Yes, there is a method for solving second order d.e s where the independent variable, "x", does not appear explicitly. It's called "quadrature". We can define v= dy/dt and then write d^2y/dx^2 as dv/dx and then use the "chain rule" to write dv/dt= (dv/dy)(dy/dx)= v(dv/dy). So y''= -y becomes v(dv/dy)= -y^2. That can be written as vdv= -y^2dy and integrated for v= dy/dx as a function of y and so a first order differential equation. Similarly, d^2y/dx^2= (y- 1)^2 becomes v dv/dy= (y- 1)^2 so that vdv= (y- 1)^2 dy.
 
In the case y"=y^2 will lead to the Weierstrass elliptic function as a solution, see for instance chapter 6 of H.T. Davis, introduction to nonlinear differential and integral equations
 
HallsofIvy said:
I Yes, there is a method for solving second order d.e s where the independent variable, "x", does not appear explicitly. It's called "quadrature". We can define v= dy/dt and then write d^2y/dx^2 as dv/dx and then use the "chain rule" to write dv/dt= (dv/dy)(dy/dx)= v(dv/dy). So y''= -y becomes v(dv/dy)= -y^2. That can be written as vdv= -y^2dy and integrated for v= dy/dx as a function of y and so a first order differential equation. Similarly, d^2y/dx^2= (y- 1)^2 becomes v dv/dy= (y- 1)^2 so that vdv= (y- 1)^2 dy.

So in the solution above that I posted, I did do that, and ended up getting:

2t + k = \int [(y-1)^3 + C]^{-1/2} dy

My main problem is going from here. Trigonometric substitution seems like one method, though I did mess up somewhere (I think) and it's a fairly long process. I feel like I'm overlooking a simpler method and if you could help hint at another way to tack this, that would be great. But if there is not another method, thank you for the help.
 
I've revised my solution since I realized I made a blatant error. I also added an extra image to hopefully make it more clear. So I've arrived at a solution, but I've also been given initial conditions (a y' and y value at specified t) but I can't exactly plug it into solve for the exact solution. If anyone has any ideas on how to solve for the constants and also if there's another better method, that would be very helpful! Thank you!
 

Attachments

  • soln.jpg
    soln.jpg
    32.2 KB · Views: 499
  • soln2.jpg
    soln2.jpg
    31.1 KB · Views: 495

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K