Solving Free Particle Action with Feynman & Gibbs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an exercise from Feynman & Gibbs regarding the action of a free particle. Participants explore the formulation of the action, the application of the Euler-Lagrange equations, and the definitions of kinetic and potential energy in this context. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical derivations related to classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses frustration in solving the exercise and attempts to derive the action using integration by parts, ultimately feeling they are solving backwards by substituting known results.
  • Another participant clarifies that the action takes different values on different paths and emphasizes the importance of finding the path that extremizes the action using the Euler-Lagrange equations.
  • A different participant questions the formulation of the action, suggesting it should involve the squared difference of positions rather than the squared positions themselves, and emphasizes starting from definitions of kinetic energy.
  • Some participants discuss the equation of motion for a free particle, noting that the second derivative of position is zero, and explore how this affects the evaluation of the action integral.
  • There is mention of the relationship between the derivative of the action with respect to position and momentum, as well as the relationship with energy, highlighting the connections between these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit differing views on the correct formulation of the action and the appropriate approach to solving the exercise. There is no consensus on the best method to derive the action, and multiple interpretations of the problem persist.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various assumptions regarding the definitions of kinetic and potential energy, as well as the application of the Euler-Lagrange equations. Some steps in the mathematical derivations remain unresolved, and the discussion reflects differing interpretations of the exercise's requirements.

gulsen
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I've recently started Feynman & Gibbs. I was sure exercises will be fun, but i can't enjoy myself when i fail solving the first one! Exercise 1-1 says: show that free particle action is

[tex]\frac{m}{2} \frac{x_b^2 - x_a^2}{t_b-t_a}[/tex]

I tried finding anti-derivative of [itex]\dot x^2[/itex], ended up with [itex]x\dot x - \int x d(\dot x)[/itex] via integration by parts. Couldn't do much about the integral. Of course, I know the solution, and can show it using Euler-Lagrange equations, [itex]x=vt[/itex] where [itex]v[/itex] is a constant (taking [itex]x_0=0[/itex]). I can "solve" the question by substituting [itex]x[/itex] in the action integral

[tex]S = \int_{t_a}^{t_b} \frac{m}{2}v^2 dt[/tex]

but i suppose this counts as cheating --kinda solving backwards.

Any ideas on how this kind of stuff can be solved?
 
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It's not cheating. The action have different values on different paths. The principle of least action claims that the actual path will extremize the action.

They want you to find the path that extremizes the action by using the usual Euler-Lagrange equations. You know the answer should be motion of constant velocity, x = xa + vt, where v = const = (xb-xa)/(tb-ta). Then you plug that in and evaluate the action on that path.
 
Last edited:
gulsen said:
I've recently started Feynman & Gibbs. I was sure exercises will be fun, but i can't enjoy myself when i fail solving the first one! Exercise 1-1 says: show that free particle action is

[tex]\frac{m}{2} \frac{x_b^2 - x_a^2}{t_b-t_a}[/tex]
Shouldn't it be:

[tex]\frac{m}{2} \frac{(x_b - x_a)^2}{t_b-t_a}[/tex]
...
Any ideas on how this kind of stuff can be solved?
The exercise asks you to find the action S. How S is defined? It's defined as

[tex]S = \int_{t_a}^{t_b} \L dt[/tex]

where L = T - V; T = kinetic energy and V = potential energy;

In this case, V = 0 and T = [tex]\frac{m}{2}v^2[/tex] and to write kinetic energy you surely don't need Eulero-Lagrange equations, I hope, kinetic energy is defined in that way!

So:

[tex]S = \int_{t_a}^{t_b} \frac{m}{2}v^2 dt[/tex]

Where is the problem? Always start from definitions.
 
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This looks wrong but the equation of motion here is [tex]\ddot{x}=0[/tex], so:

[tex] S=\frac{m}{2}\int_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}\dot{x}^{2}dt=\left[ x\dot{x}\right]_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}-\int_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}x\ddot{x}dt[/tex]

Now in second integral is zero by the equation of motion. Not too sure where to go from here.
 
hunt_mat said:
This looks wrong but the equation of motion here is [tex]\ddot{x}=0[/tex], so:

[tex] S=\frac{m}{2}\int_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}\dot{x}^{2}dt=\left[ x\dot{x}\right]_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}-\int_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}x\ddot{x}dt[/tex]

Now in second integral is zero by the equation of motion. Not too sure where to go from here.

Remember that [tex]\dot{x}[/tex] is the same at the initial time and final time, since [tex]\ddot{x}=0[/tex].

So you get [tex]\left[ x\dot{x}\right]_{t_{a}}^{t_{b}}=\dot{x}(x_b-x_a)=\frac{(x_b-x_a)^2}{t_b-t_a}[/tex]

So you can check that the derivative of the action:

[tex]S=\frac{m}{2}\frac{(x_b-x_a)^2}{t_b-t_a}[/tex]

with respect to x_b equals momentum, and with respect to time equals negative energy (which in this case is just kinetic).
 

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