Solving Graph Reflections: Find Inverse Function & Reflect in y=mx

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of reflecting graphs in the line y=mx, specifically exploring the challenges of finding inverse functions and understanding transformations involving matrices. Participants examine the reflection of a quadratic function and the implications of using different lines of reflection.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the method of finding the inverse function by switching x and y variables, using the example of y=(x+1)^2 and attempting to reflect it in the line y=2x.
  • Another participant points out that the transformation attempted does not represent a simple reflection but involves a shear, indicating a misunderstanding of the transformations involved.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of matrices, with one participant expressing a desire for explanations that do not rely on matrix concepts.
  • Further discussion includes clarifications on how matrices represent transformations and the relationship between matrix operations and geometric transformations.
  • One participant attempts to reflect the function in the line y=4x, noting that the intersection point with the parabola remains consistent but the shapes differ due to shearing effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding matrix transformations and their application to graph reflections. There is no consensus on the best approach to explain these concepts without using matrices, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of the reflection process.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of matrices and transformations, indicating a need for clearer explanations. The discussion reflects a mix of mathematical reasoning and conceptual challenges without resolving the complexities involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in graph transformations, inverse functions, and the application of matrices in geometry, particularly those seeking to deepen their understanding of these concepts.

Mentallic
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I know how to take the reflection of a graph in the [itex]y=x[/itex] line, or more formally, finding the inverse function. All I really do is switch the x and y variables in the function.

e.g. [itex]y=x^2[/itex], [itex]x=y^2[/itex]

I tried taking the same idea and extending it to a reflection in the y=mx line, m constant. But I encountered problems as such:

Take the function [itex]y=(x+1)^2[/itex], reflect it in the line [itex]y=2x[/itex] or [itex]x=y/2[/itex]

I tried using the same idea as before, so I substitute all x and y variables as such and this is the result:

[tex]y=(x+1)^2 : 2x=(y/2+1)^2[/tex]

But when I graph both functions, it doesn't look correct. The new 'reflected' function looks much too fat/shallow.
Could someone please explain what I'm doing wrong. Where is my logic flawed here?
 
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Hi Mentallic! :smile:

Your first transformation was

0 1
1 0

which is a reflection.

Your second transformation is

0 1/2
2 0

It leaves the line y = 2x invariant not because it is a reflection about that line, but because it is a reflection about y = x combined with a shear: :wink:

0 1
1 0

and

1/2 0
0 2
 
Oh no, matrices. My worst enemy! I tried to learn them off the Massechusetts (spelling) videos on youtube, but failed miserably after a few lectures.

Is it possible to extend this explanation into another form other than matrices?
 
Mentallic said:
Oh no, matrices. My worst enemy! I tried to learn them off the Massechusetts (spelling) videos on youtube, but failed miserably after a few lectures.

Is it possible to extend this explanation into another form other than matrices?

ah … this is your chance to get a better understanding of matrices. :wink:

First, can you see that

3 0
0 3

is an expansion (everything gets 3 times bigger)?

Second,

3 0
0 1

stretches in the x-direction only (leaving the y coordinates the same),

and likewise

1 0
0 2

stretches in the y-direction only (leaving the x coordinates the same).

Finally,

3 0
0 2

is a shear, which stretches 3 times in the x-direction but only 2 times in the y-direction, and

0 3
2 0

is a reflection in the x = y line, combined with a shear.

Does that make sense? :smile:
 
Surprisingly, yes :bugeye:

But this is how I learned (if you can even call it that) matrices:

Excuse me for not using latex, as I don't know how to create matrices...

[a c] [e]
[b d] [f]

Is equivalent to: ax+cy=e and bx+dy=f

Now, as for all the matrices you've shown, I don't know what they're supposed to mean when they don't have the second 'box' next to them.

i.e.

3 0
0 3

this is equivalent to 3x and 3y? It doesn't make sense to me when they're not expressed as functions.
 
Mentallic said:
Excuse me for not using latex, as I don't know how to create matrices...

I do know how to :approve:

but it takes so long I can't be bothered! :rolleyes:
But this is how I learned (if you can even call it that) matrices:

[a c] [e]
[b d] [f]

Is equivalent to: ax+cy=e and bx+dy=f

Nooo, that should be:

[a c] [x] = [e]
[b d] [y] = [f]
Now, as for all the matrices you've shown, I don't know what they're supposed to mean when they don't have the second 'box' next to them.

i.e.

3 0
0 3

this is equivalent to 3x and 3y? It doesn't make sense to me when they're not expressed as functions.

[3 0]
[0 3]

is (in algebra) a set of instructions,

and (in geometry) a transformation,

and it means that if you put a vector next to it:

[3 0] [2]
[0 3] [3]

then it converts that vector to another vector:

[3 0] [2] = [6]
[0 3] [3] = [9]

and similarly

[0 3]
[2 0]

is the rule that converts as follows:

[0 3] [2] = [9]
[2 0] [3] = [4]

So when you write a matrix on its own, it's a rule (like a computer program),

and you can put any "input" vector next to it, and get an "output" vector. :smile:
 
omgosh

Maybe I should go learn matrices for real this time... Be back in a bit after
i've acquired more knowledge on the topic :smile:
 
In one last attempt, I tried reflecting [itex]y=(x+1)^2[/itex] in the line [itex]y=4x[/itex]
This case is slightly different since the line now intersects the parabola at one point (1,4) and when I tried the same thing I did previously:

So I plotted [tex]4x=(\frac{y}{4}+1)^2[/tex] and this parabola intersected the the line at the same point, which is consistent with the features of other functions being reflected in the y=x line. I guess they don't look like the same because they have been sheared as you said tiny-tim :smile:

Still, I need to learn these matrices as they keep popping up in the most awkward places and catch me off-guard.
 

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