Solving Isometries Proofs: Geometry Revisions & Help

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving proofs related to isometries in geometry, specifically focusing on properties of orthogonal matrices and their effects on vectors in R^3. Participants are addressing theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning involved in these proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof for the determinant of an orthogonal matrix, concluding that det(A) = +/- 1 based on properties of determinants and orthogonal matrices.
  • Another participant inquires about calculating the length of a vector using its transpose, suggesting a connection to the inner product.
  • Some participants express confusion about using the transpose to find vector lengths, indicating a lack of familiarity with this method.
  • A suggestion is made to consider the relationship between the inner product and the length of a vector, specifically ||v||² = v . vT.
  • One participant acknowledges the correctness of the proof for part a and provides a hint for part b, suggesting the use of the inner product properties of orthogonal matrices.
  • Another participant proposes calculating the inner product of transformed vectors to demonstrate that the length remains unchanged under the transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the proof for part a. However, there is ongoing uncertainty and lack of consensus regarding the approach to part b, with multiple perspectives on how to calculate vector lengths and apply the properties of orthogonal matrices.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of using transposes in vector calculations, indicating a potential gap in foundational knowledge that may affect their ability to engage with the proofs fully.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals studying linear algebra, particularly those interested in properties of orthogonal matrices and their applications in geometry.

nlews
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Have been revising geometry today and have came across some proofs that I can't seem to find in books, but I can't get through either. Any help would be great.

Let A be a 3x3 orthogonal matrix and let x and y be vectors in R^3

a) Show that detA = +/- 1

b) Show that the length of Ax is the same as that of x and that x and y are orthogonal iff Ax and Ay are orthogonal
Suppose further that A represents a rotation through angleθ , with axis of rotation along the unit vector n, show that if m is a unit vector orthogonal to n, then n.m^Am = sinθ

attempt at a)

from defn of orthogonal matrix (Atr.A = I)

det(Atr . A) = det(I) = 1
using standard results such as det(A.B) = detA. detB and det(Atr) = det(A)
we have det(Atr).det(A) = det(A)^2
detA^2=1
therefore det A = +\- 1

b) struggling to start.

Thank you in advance
 
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For b) if you have a vector v with transpose tr(v), how do you calculate the length of v?

You also might want to know that tr(x y) = tr(y) tr(x).
 
The only way I know how to find the length of a vector is by squaring and square-rooting. I have never used the transpose to find the length. Ahh I am very stuck!
 
Can you convince yourself that
||v||2 = v . vT
where the dot denotes the inner product?
 
I can sort of see it, but working on a proof right now. Will check back later if I get one out. For some reason I just don't see how this answers the question! Sorry for being a pain and thank you for your advice so far.
 
Your proof of part a is correct.

For part b.

Try using the formula <x,Ay> = <Atrx,y> which works because A is orthogonal.

In the rotation question, you are looking at the area of the parallelogram spanned by the two unit vectors m and Am.
 
Last edited:
Well, if the formula I gave is valid for any vector, then in particular it holds for Ax.

So if you calculate (Ax) . (Ax)T you should get precisely the length x . xT back.
 

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