Solving Nonlinear Differential Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of solving a specific nonlinear differential equation of the form \(y'' = y + y^2 + y^3\) and the methods to express the dependent variable \(y\) as a function of time \(t\). Participants explore theoretical approaches, derivations from Lagrangian mechanics, and integration techniques related to this equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the nonlinear differential equation can be solved to express \(y\) as a function of \(t\).
  • Another participant suggests that the equation is separable and notes the complexity of obtaining an explicit function due to the nature of the double integral involved.
  • A participant describes the origin of the equation from a Lagrangian analysis of a rotating mass on a rod and expresses uncertainty about the classification of the equation as homogeneous or nonhomogeneous.
  • Some participants propose integrating the equation after multiplying by \(y'\) to derive a relationship involving \(y\) and \(t\), but there is confusion regarding the presence of the independent variable \(t\) in the integration process.
  • There is a reiteration of the integration method, with participants discussing the steps involved in deriving an expression for \(\frac{dy}{dt}\) from the original equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the solvability of the nonlinear differential equation, with some suggesting methods for integration while others question the clarity and correctness of those methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the feasibility of expressing \(y\) as a function of \(t\).

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made in the derivation of the equation, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps related to the integration process. The classification of the equation as homogeneous or nonhomogeneous is also not settled.

e2m2a
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Is it possible to solve a nonlinear differential equation of the form below such that the dependent variable y can be expressed as a function of time t?


(second time derivative of y) = y + y squared + y cube
 
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$$y'' = y + y^2 + y^3$$

That equation? It's separable and the polynomial isn't of too high a degree. The double integral will make it nasty though so don't expect an explicit function.
 
Here is how this problem arose. I derived a differential equation using Lagrangian for the following situation:

Imagine a near massless rod of length L with a mass m at the end of the rod. Imagine it is pivoted at one end and has one degree of freedom so that it can rotate in a counter-clockwise direction in a plane perpendicular to the surface of the earth.

At some point in time and at the zero degree position the rod begins to rotate with an initial angular velocity dot theta. Using the Lagrangian, I derived this:

double dot theta = -g/L cos(theta), where g is the gravitational constant.

Now this differential equation does not satisfy what I wanted. I was looking for a way to express dot theta as a function of time. I believe this result would be considered a nonlinear equation. I am not sure if this equation is considered a homogeneous or nonhomogeneous differential equation. Is it true that nonlinear equations are often impossible to solve?

Any way, what we get is the above differential equation that shows the angular acceleration of the mass as a function of theta. By substituting the cos(theta) for a Taylor polynomial series, I was hoping I could get dot theta as a function of time by doing some operations on the Taylor polynomials.

Would this be possible, or would using Hamiltonian analysis give me the desired result, finding an expression of dot theta as a function of time?
 
You can multiply the equation by y' and integrate wr to time to obtain:

\frac{1}{2}(y')^2=\frac{y^2}{2}+\frac{y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{4}+C

Then take the square root of both sides to obtain:

y'=\pm\sqrt{C+y^2+\frac{2y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{2}}

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
You can multiply the equation by y' and integrate wr to time to obtain:

\frac{1}{2}(y')^2=\frac{y^2}{2}+\frac{y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{4}+C

Then take the square root of both sides to obtain:

y'=\pm\sqrt{C+y^2+\frac{2y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{2}}

Chet

Sorry, I don't see how you did this and where is the independent variable t in this?
 
da_nang said:
$$y'' = y + y^2 + y^3$$

That equation? It's separable and the polynomial isn't of too high a degree. The double integral will make it nasty though so don't expect an explicit function.

The term on the left should be a second order derivative of y with respect to time.
I don't know exactly what you mean by a double integral. Do you mean integrate both sides twice-- the left side with respect to y and the right side with respect to t two times?
 
e2m2a said:
Sorry, I don't see how you did this and where is the independent variable t in this?
\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=y+y^2+y^3
Multiply both sides of the equation by ##\frac{dy}{dt}##:
\frac{dy}{dt}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=y\frac{dy}{dt}+y^2\frac{dy}{dt}+y^3\frac{dy}{dt}
But,
\frac{dy}{dt}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=\frac{1}{2}\frac{d}{dt}\left(\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)^2\right)
So, integrating with respect to t, we obtain:

\frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)^2=\frac{y^2}{2}+\frac{y^3}{3}<br /> +\frac{y^4}{4}+C

Then take the square root of both sides to obtain:

\frac{dy}{dt}=\pm\sqrt{C+y^2+\frac{2y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{2}}

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=y+y^2+y^3
Multiply both sides of the equation by ##\frac{dy}{dt}##:
\frac{dy}{dt}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=y\frac{dy}{dt}+y^2\frac{dy}{dt}+y^3\frac{dy}{dt}
But,
\frac{dy}{dt}\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}=\frac{1}{2}\frac{d}{dt}\left(\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)^2\right)
So, integrating with respect to t, we obtain:

\frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{dy}{dt}\right)^2=\frac{y^2}{2}+\frac{y^3}{3}<br /> +\frac{y^4}{4}+C

Then take the square root of both sides to obtain:

\frac{dy}{dt}=\pm\sqrt{C+y^2+\frac{2y^3}{3}+\frac{y^4}{2}}

Chet

Thank you for the explanation.
 

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