Solving Separating Variables Differential Equations

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter KevinL
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Variables
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving differential equations using the method of separation of variables. Participants explore specific examples, check each other's work, and clarify concepts related to equilibrium solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the first differential equation, dy/dt = t^4*y, and derives the general solution, questioning if y = 0 is an equilibrium solution.
  • Another participant agrees with the solution and further questions if there exists a value of t that satisfies the condition when y = 0.
  • For the second equation, dy/dt = 2-y, the same participant confirms the solution and asks if y = 2 is also an equilibrium solution, prompting a similar inquiry about the existence of t.
  • In the third equation, dy/dt = 1/(ty + t + y + 1), participants discuss the transformation of the equation and express uncertainty about how to proceed with the solution.
  • One participant suggests a method of integration but acknowledges being stuck, referencing homework instructions that allow for incomplete solutions.
  • Another participant draws an analogy with the exponential function to illustrate why certain values lead to undefined situations, specifically when considering the logarithm of zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the first two solutions but express uncertainty regarding the implications of equilibrium solutions. The third equation remains unresolved, with multiple approaches discussed but no consensus on a complete solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with certain values leading to undefined expressions, particularly in the context of logarithmic functions. The discussion also highlights the limitations of the presented solutions, as some steps remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and educators interested in differential equations, particularly those learning about separation of variables and equilibrium solutions, may find this discussion beneficial.

KevinL
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
I would just like to have my first two questions checked, and on the last one I'm not even quite sure how to start it.

Find the general solution of the differential equation.

1) dy/dt = t^4*y

dy/y = t^4 dt

Integrate both sides:

ln|y| = (t^5)/5 +c

Raise both sides by e to get rid of ln:

y = +/- ce^(t^5/5)

Is y = 0 also a solution (equilibrium)?

2) dy/dt = 2-y

dy/(2-y) = 1 dt

integrate both sides:

-ln|2-y| = t+c
ln|2-y| = -t+c

Raise both sides by e to get rid of ln:

|2-y| = ce^-t
y=ce^-t +2

Is y=2 also a solution (equilibrium)?

3) dy/dt = 1/(ty + t + y + 1)

Im not even sure how to get this in the form dy/dt = f(t)g(y)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
KevinL said:
I would just like to have my first two questions checked, and on the last one I'm not even quite sure how to start it.

Find the general solution of the differential equation.

1) dy/dt = t^4*y

dy/y = t^4 dt

Integrate both sides:

ln|y| = (t^5)/5 +c

Raise both sides by e to get rid of ln:

y = +/- ce^(t^5/5)

Is y = 0 also a solution (equilibrium)?

This is good.

so if y=0 is a solution, then 0=cet5/5

is there any value of t that satisfies this?

KevinL said:
2) dy/dt = 2-y

dy/(2-y) = 1 dt

integrate both sides:

-ln|2-y| = t+c
ln|2-y| = -t+c

Raise both sides by e to get rid of ln:

|2-y| = ce^-t
y=ce^-t +2

Is y=2 also a solution (equilibrium)?

This is good as well. Similar, with the one above, 2=ce-t+2. Is there any t to satisfy this?

EDIT: even though it is correct, you should use a different letter for the constant c, just so it isn't technically wrong.

KevinL said:
3) dy/dt = 1/(ty + t + y + 1)

ty+t+y+t ≡ ty+y +t+1 ≡ (t+1)y+(t+1)

see it now?
 
Last edited:
rock.freak667 said:
so if y=0 is a solution, then 0=cet5/5

is there any value of t that satisfies this?
t=0. The way I thought of it originally was that we had the integral dy/y, so if y=0 you obviously would get problems. Is this a fair way to think of it?


rock.freak667 said:
Similar, with the one above, 2=ce-t+2. Is there any t to satisfy this?
t=0. Similarly, when you have dy/(2-y), y=2 would give you problems. Again, is this a fair way to find the solution y=2?

rock.freak667 said:
ty+t+y+t ≡ ty+y +t+1 ≡ (t+1)y+(t+1)

see it now?

Ah, of course. So...

(y+1) dy = 1/(t=1) dt

Integrate both sides:

y^2/2 + y = ln|t+1|

e^(y^2/2)*e^y -1 = t

Now we're stuck (or at least I am stuck! :)). The HW instructions mentioned that this could happen, but to get as "far as you can". Does this suffice for an answer?
 
Say we had ex=2 and we wanted to find x. We'd take ln of both sides

lnex=ln2 => x*lne=ln2 =>x=ln2


so now for ex=0, take ln lnex=ln(0). We have a problem now, ln(0) does not exist. So there is no x that satisfies ex=0. Better now?
 
Makes sense now. Thank you for the help :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K