Space and time -- Is the term "light year" really correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the terminology of "light year" and whether it is more accurate to describe astronomical distances in terms of time, specifically questioning if stating something is "7 billion light years away" should instead be framed as "7 billion years ago." The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical reasoning regarding the implications of using light years as a unit of measurement in cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that describing distances in light years could be misleading and may imply a temporal aspect that is not straightforward.
  • Others argue that a light year is fundamentally a unit of distance, defined as the distance light travels in one year, and thus is appropriate for describing astronomical distances.
  • A participant raises the issue of cosmological corrections, questioning whether the distance should be considered from the current position or from the time of emission, indicating that the interpretation may vary based on the context.
  • Another participant emphasizes that relativity complicates the relationship between distance and time, asserting that simultaneity is frame-dependent and cannot be equated simply to a time frame like "7 billion years ago."
  • One participant points out the ambiguity in using "7 billion years ago" to describe distance, arguing that it does not convey the necessary information about the actual distance involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of using "light year" versus "years ago" for describing astronomical distances, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved considerations regarding the implications of cosmological distances, the effects of the expanding universe, and the definitions of simultaneity in different frames of reference.

Simon Peach
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When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
Not if spelling counts. :wink:
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
Why bother? What's wrong w/ 7 billions light years away?
 
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Do you have a problem with saying something is one meter away, or would you insist on saying that it is "3 nanoseconds ago"?
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
It is ambiguous in its very purpose.

The atoms you are breathing right now are mostly more than 7 billion years old, and yet they are significantly less than 7 billion light years away.

So, saying "something happened 7 billion years ago" tells you nothing about how far away it is - which defeats the very purpose of attempting to ascribe it with a distance in the first place.
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
A light year is a unit of distance
It is simply the distance one would travel in 365.25 days (a Julian year) if you were moving at c.
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
7 billion is a long time. Long enough that cosmological corrections are required.

Are you talking about the emitting object being 7 billion light-years away from here "now" or as being 7 billion light-years away from "here" at the time of emission. If you are talking about distance now then the time of emission will be less than 7 billion years ago. If you are talking about distance then then the time of emission will be more than 7 billion years ago.

If you are talking about cumulative distance moved against co-moving coordinates, the answer should be 7 billion light-years covered in 7 billion years.

For simplicity, we can assume co-moving coordinates and zero proper motion of both emitter and receiver.

We are talking about z in the neighborhood of 0.5.
 
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Simon Peach said:
When something is described as say 7 billion light years away would't it be more accurate to 7 billoin years ago?
Definitely no.
Relativity does not denies possible simultaneity between far enough points of space. It tells only that simultaneity will be different depending on the frame of reference, and also: whatever happens at some far enough point of space at some time you just won't know it till the appropriate time.
Something at 7 billion lightyears away, at this very moment (by our frame of reference) - it's not the same as '7 billion years ago' or anything like that.
 
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