Special Relativity and the Measurement Problem of QM

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between special relativity and the measurement problem in quantum mechanics (QM), particularly exploring how concepts of time and observation may influence the behavior of quantum particles and their wave functions. Participants examine whether the principles of special relativity can provide insights into the nature of wave function collapse and the behavior of particles in isolated states.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that special relativity's lack of an objective time frame might relate to the behavior of quantum particles, suggesting that particles can exist in multiple states until measured.
  • Others argue that special relativity does have an objective model of time that differs from classical intuition, and that the concept of time in relativity is not merely relative to the observer's speed.
  • A participant challenges the interpretation that quantum mechanics states a particle is "everywhere at once," asserting that it describes a probability density for a particle's position instead.
  • Some participants insist that in isolated states, quantum mechanics does imply a particle can be considered to be in multiple locations simultaneously.
  • There is a discussion about the validity of terms like "time frame" and the need for proper sources to support claims regarding quantum mechanics and special relativity.
  • One participant suggests that the quantum field associated with a particle can be viewed as being everywhere at once, rather than the particle itself.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the relevance of fields having values at all places and times, questioning the uniqueness of quantum mechanics in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the implications of special relativity on quantum mechanics and the interpretation of wave function collapse. There is no consensus on whether quantum mechanics supports the idea of particles being "everywhere at once" or how time is conceptualized in relation to these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of proper terminology and the need for peer-reviewed sources to substantiate claims. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of quantum mechanics and special relativity, with some statements remaining contested and lacking clear definitions.

User2022
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Given what we know about special relativity and its implication for time and the observer, could this in any way be linked to why the isolated processes of QM are exhibiting everything happening at once and then collapsing to classical physics when bigger objects interact - the measurement problem?

Special relativity prescripes that there is no objective time frame, it's all dependent on the observer. The particles of QM exhibit exactly that when there is no measurement.

It doesn't account for why there is an (apparent) wave function collapse, but it could explain why a particle is everwhere at once when isolated?
 
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User2022 said:
Special relativity prescribes that there is no objective time frame, it's all dependent on the observer.
You are misunderstanding how special relativity works (a very forgivable misunderstanding if you haven't been learning from a serious textbook). There is an unambiguous and objective model of time that just happens to be different than our classical intuition. Searching this forum for threads on the difference between "proper time" and "coordinate time" would be a good start, as would be working through Taylor and Wheeler's textbook "Spacetime Physics".
It doesn't account for why there is an (apparent) wave function collapse, but it could explain why a particle is everywhere at once when isolated?
The apparent (and that adjective is important!) wave function collapse has been well understood for some decades. Google for "quantum decoherence", or give David Lindley's book "Where does the weirdness go?" a try.

Quantum mechanics does not say that "a particle is everywhere at once", it doesn't ever say anything about where the particle is. It tells us the probability of detecting a particle at a particular location if we choose to look for it there - but the idea of "particle position" (as opposed to "detector right there just triggered") simply doesn't appear in the mathematical formalism. Again, this is one of the things that is best understood by working through a proper textbook and taking on the math; Giancarlo Ghirardi's book "Sneaking a look at god's cards" is as close to a layman-friendly explanation as I know.

(Also, please be mindful of the forum rule about posting personal speculation and new theories that have not been published in an appropriate peer-reviewed journal).
 
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Nugatory said:
Quantum mechanics does not say that "a particle is everywhere at once",
It does too, in isolated states.
 
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Nugatory said:
There is an unambiguous and objective model of time that just happens to be different than our classical intuition.

Forgive me for thinking that time frame is relative to the speed of the observer.
 
User2022 said:
It does too, in isolated states.
Can you cite any valid source (that is a college-level QM textbook or peer-reviewed journal article) supporting that statement?
User2022 said:
Forgive me for thinking that time frame is relative to the speed of the observer.
Well, “time frame” isn’t a generally accepted term for anything (same comment about valid sources applies if you disagree), but it is true that the time values that we assign to remote events (that is, statements of the form “X happened at the same time that this clock read T”) depend on our choice of reference frame. These are the “coordinate times” that I mentioned above, and they have no physical significance, they’re just computational aids. Proper time, the physical quantity that a clock measures like a ruler measures distance, is unaffected by speed.
 
User2022 said:
It does too, in isolated states.
No, quantum mechanics does not say a particle is at several places at one time. It's saying that there is a probability density for its position. The subject most distorted by popular-science writing is quantum theory!
 
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User2022 said:
It does too, in isolated states.

It's better to say the respective quantum field that gives rise to the particle in question can be regarded as being everywhere at once.
 
I don't think that's useful. All fields have values at all places and times. Nothing special quantum-y.
 

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