Spivak: Is his how to approach these proofs?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Saladsamurai
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Approach Proofs Spivak
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around approaches to solving problems from Chapter one of Spivak's Calculus, specifically focusing on the factorization of cubic expressions. Participants explore different methods for proving the identities involving x^3 - y^3 and x^3 + y^3, as well as the implications for generalizing these factorizations for odd exponents.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant demonstrates a method for proving x^3 - y^3 = (x-y)(x^2+xy+y^2) by adding and subtracting terms, expressing concern about relying on the desired outcome to guide their approach.
  • Another participant suggests that knowing the first identity allows for the second identity, x^3 + y^3 = (x+y)(x^2-xy+y^2), to be derived by substituting -y for y.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about Spivak's intent regarding a more general method for factoring x^n + y^n for odd n, indicating a lack of clarity on how to achieve this without prior knowledge of the factorization.
  • There is a suggestion that observing y = x as a root for odd exponents and using long division could be a valid approach, though it is questioned whether this aligns with Spivak's guidance.
  • One participant speculates that Spivak may have made a typo in referencing problem (iv) instead of (v), which deals with the factorization of x^n - y^n.
  • Another participant agrees that substituting -y for y in problem (v) could provide insight into the factorization of x^n + y^n, suggesting this aligns with Spivak's intent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express uncertainty about the best approach to factor x^n + y^n for odd n, with multiple competing views on how to interpret Spivak's instructions. There is no consensus on the most effective method or whether Spivak's reference to problem (iv) was correct.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that their approaches may depend on prior knowledge of specific identities, and there is ambiguity regarding the generalization of factorization methods for odd exponents. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of Spivak's intent and the clarity of the problem statements.

Saladsamurai
Messages
3,009
Reaction score
7
Hello all :smile:

I have started the problem set for Chapter one (basic properties of numbers) in Spivak's Calculus (self study). I think I am doing these right, but I have some questions.

As a solid example, problem 1-(iv) says to prove the following:

[tex]x^3 - y^3 = (x-y)(x^2+xy+y^2)\qquad(1)[/tex]

My approach was to add and subtract terms to the left hand side of (1) until it could be factored into the desired form:

[tex]\begin{array}{l}<br /> x^3 - y^3 &= x^3 - y^3 + (x^2y - x^2y) + (xy^2 - xy^2) \\ <br /> &= x^3 +x^2y+xy^2 - y^3 - x^2y - xy^2 \\<br /> &=x(x^2+xy+y^2)-y(x^2+xy+y^2) \\<br /> &= (x-y)(x^2+xy+y^2)<br /> \end{array}[/tex]

Now this seems correct to me, but I feel a little guilty because I only knew what to add and subtract to the LHS of (1) because I knew what I was trying to achieve- the RHS of (1).

My second question is similar, but requires some clarifying of Spivak's intent. In problem 1-(vi) he says: Prove the following:

[tex]x^3 + y^3 = (x+y)(x^2-xy+y^2)\qquad(2)[/tex]

Then he says, "There is a particularly easy way to do this, using (iv), and it will show you how to find a factorization of [itex]x^n+y^n[/itex] whenever n is odd."

Well, I solved this one the exact same way I did with (iv) above: I used the right hand side of (2) to infer what terms to add/subtract and obtained the solution. However, the fact that I do not see what he means by the quoted text above leads me to believe that there was some other approach. That is, I have not discovered a way to factorize [itex]x^n+y^n[/itex] whenever n is odd in my procedure.

Any thoughts are appreciated :smile:
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Certainly, if you know (1), you can get (2) by simply substituting -y in for the y.
 
LCKurtz said:
Certainly, if you know (1), you can get (2) by simply substituting -y in for the y.

Hi LC :smile: Yes. I arrived at the solution, but in particular, I am concerned about my approach as I do not see what he means by

Spivak said:
...and it will show you how to find a factorization of xn+yn whenever n is odd
 
OK, I see what you mean now. Apparently you need a more clever approach to (1) that easily generalizes to higher odd exponents. I don't know -- I'll think about it if this football game doesn't keep me too distracted. But don't count on me for this one :frown:
 
Also, I guess that observing that y = x is a root for odd exponents and factoring (y-x) by long division doesn't count?
 
LCKurtz said:
Also, I guess that observing that y = x is a root for odd exponents and factoring (y-x) by long division doesn't count?

Maybe he made a typo? He says "this can easily be done using (iv)". Maybe he meant (v). In problem (v) we proved that

[tex] x^n-y^n = (x-y)(x^{n-1} + x^{n-2} y+\dots+xy^{n-2} +y^{n-1} )[/tex]

Anyway, no big deal! Get back to your game! :smile:
 
Saladsamurai said:
Maybe he made a typo? He says "this can easily be done using (iv)". Maybe he meant (v). In problem (v) we proved that

[tex] x^n-y^n = (x-y)(x^{n-1} + x^{n-2} y+\dots+xy^{n-2} +y^{n-1} )[/tex]

Anyway, no big deal! Get back to your game! :smile:

My thoughts:

Spivak is correct, (vi) can be easily done by (iv) by just substituting -y for y.
This gives you a hint how to obtain the factorization of [itex]x^n+y^n[/itex]. Indeed, take (v) and substitute -y for y again...
 
micromass said:
My thoughts:

Spivak is correct, (vi) can be easily done by (iv) by just substituting -y for y.
This gives you a hint how to obtain the factorization of [itex]x^n+y^n[/itex]. Indeed, take (v) and substitute -y for y again...

I am pretty sure this is what Spivak intended.

Also note that you don't have to start from the left side for the first one..

(x-y)([itex]x^{2}[/itex]+xy+[itex]y^{2}[/itex])=x([itex]x^{2}[/itex]+xy+[itex]y^{2}[/itex])-y([itex]x^{2}[/itex]+xy+[itex]y^{2}[/itex])=([itex]x^{3}[/itex]+[itex]x^{2}[/itex]y+x[itex]y^{2}[/itex])-([itex]x^{2}[/itex]y+x[itex]y^{2}[/itex]+[itex]y^{3}[/itex])=[itex]x^{3}[/itex]-[itex]y^{3}[/itex]

This approach will come in handy for at least one problem in chapter two, but I will let you figure out which one!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
3K