Spontaneous "back-and-forth" chemical reactions

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the concept of spontaneous "back-and-forth" chemical reactions, specifically exploring the idea of chemical oscillators. Participants highlight the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction as a prime example of a non-living chemical oscillator that exhibits oscillatory behavior without reaching a stable equilibrium. The conversation also touches on the broader implications of oscillation in both living and non-living systems, emphasizing that while oscillators can operate indefinitely under energy input, they ultimately dissipate energy and cannot sustain themselves indefinitely.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of chemical oscillators, specifically the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction.
  • Basic knowledge of thermodynamics and entropy in chemical reactions.
  • Familiarity with energy dissipation in physical systems.
  • Concept of oscillation in both living and non-living systems.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction and its applications in chemical kinetics.
  • Explore thermodynamic principles related to energy dissipation in oscillating systems.
  • Investigate other examples of non-living chemical oscillators and their mechanisms.
  • Study the implications of oscillatory behavior in biological systems and their parallels with non-living systems.
USEFUL FOR

Chemists, chemical engineers, and researchers interested in chemical kinetics, thermodynamics, and the study of oscillatory systems in both living and non-living contexts.

icakeov
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I was wondering if there is a good example of a chemical reaction cascade that reverses itself, or does a "loop" in nature outside of life?

First thing that came to mind was water evaporating and coming back down from clouds, but that is not really a chemical reaction. Or would it be considered one?

Thanks for any feedback.
 
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I didn't know of this, despite being a chemist. Thank you Asymptotic.
 
That is totally it! Thank you!
 
Note: it is not a real oscillator, working indefinitely. It is a process that goes from some initial state to some final state, it just doesn't go there straight, but through oscillations.
 
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Thanks for pointing that out Borek.

Would there be an example of this kind of non-living oscillator that is fed by an energy source, and just keeps going? And whether this exists and can be found somewhere on Earth at all?

Also, would it be fair to say the same thing of living organisms as they all have some form of an expiry date and are in essence are a complex form of an "oscillating mechanism"?
 
icakeov said:
Would there be an example of this kind of non-living oscillator that is fed by an energy source, and just keeps going?

Every oscillator that dissipates energy must stop when the available energy is all used out.

Radio transmitter converting electric energy into radio waves. Clock that uses spring energy.
 
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I’m curious about the existence of any spontaneous non-living chemical events that do this on Earth.
 
Last edited:
It has to be noted that, even though the concentration of one chemical species can oscillate in some chemical reactions, the total entropy has to be monotonously increasing. This requires that the concentration of some of the chemical species participating in the reaction has to be monotonously increasing/decreasing.
 
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"Monotonically". Unless, of course, you find chemistry boring...
 
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  • #12
mjc123 said:
"Monotonically". Unless, of course, you find chemistry boring...

Oh, sorry, confused the similar terms. :p
 

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