Square Brackets in Partial Derivatives: Meaning & Examples

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the meaning of square brackets in the context of partial derivatives, particularly in expressions involving antisymmetrization of indices in tensor equations. Participants explore the implications of these brackets in relation to antisymmetric tensors and their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of square brackets in expressions involving partial derivatives, suggesting they may not represent commutators.
  • Another participant asserts that the square brackets indicate total antisymmetrization of the indices in the expressions for tensors.
  • A follow-up question seeks clarification on whether antisymmetry implies that F_{\mu\nu} = -F_{\nu\mu} and whether square brackets denote cyclic permutations of indices.
  • A later reply challenges the assertion that the square brackets can be interpreted as cyclic permutations, arguing that this does not achieve the desired antisymmetrization and that terms must include negative signs to reflect antisymmetry correctly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the square brackets indicate some form of antisymmetrization, but there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of these brackets as representing cyclic permutations and the implications for the expressions involved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the properties of antisymmetric tensors and the specific mathematical operations involved remain unresolved, particularly regarding the correct formulation of antisymmetrization in the context of the discussed expressions.

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What do the square brackets represent in the expressions below:

\partial_{[\mu}\partial_{\nu}A_{\rho ]}

\partial_{[\mu}F_{\nu\rho ]}

I'm guessing they aren't commutators?

thanks.
 
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Index total antisymmetrization. This means that the <objects> in the LHS of

T_{\mu\nu\rho} = \partial_{[\mu}\partial_{\nu}A_{\rho ]}

and

R_{\mu\nu\rho} = \partial_{[\mu}F_{\nu\rho ]}

are totally antisymmetric in the 3 indices they have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_tensor
 
dextercioby said:
Index total antisymmetrization. This means that the <objects> in the LHS of

T_{\mu\nu\rho} = \partial_{[\mu}\partial_{\nu}A_{\rho ]}

and

R_{\mu\nu\rho} = \partial_{[\mu}F_{\nu\rho ]}

are totally antisymmetric in the 3 indices they have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisymmetric_tensor

Thanks for the reply. So they are both antisymmetric tensors - by this do we simply mean that F_{\mu\nu}=-F_{\nu\mu}?

Also would I be right in saying that the square brackets mean cyclic permutations thus:

T_{\mu\nu\rho} = \partial_{[\mu}\partial_{\nu}A_{\rho ]} = \partial_\mu \partial_\nu \partial_\rho + \partial_\nu \partial_\rho \partial_\mu + \partial_\rho \partial_\mu \partial_\nu
 
This last part is not true, because the desired antisymmetrization is not achieved: if you shuffle indices in the RHS, you can't obtain that, e.g.

T_{\mu\nu\rho} = - T_{\nu\mu\rho}.

In other words, you normally have to have terms with - (minus) in the sum in the RHS.
 

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