Square in denominator of derivative

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    Derivative Square
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of the function log(σ²) - 1/σ² with respect to σ². Participants explore methods for finding both the first and second derivatives, addressing potential confusion regarding the variable of differentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the first derivative is 1/σ² but expresses uncertainty about the subsequent steps and requests assistance.
  • Another participant suggests substituting x = σ² and differentiating normally as a potential approach.
  • A different participant claims to have derived the first derivative as 1/σ² + 1/σ⁴ and provides their calculation for the second derivative as -1/σ⁴ - 2/σ⁶, referencing an external document for support.
  • One participant challenges the correctness of the previous claims, presenting two methods for differentiation, emphasizing the use of the chain rule and logarithmic properties, and clarifying that the differentiation should be with respect to σ², not σ.
  • A later reply indicates satisfaction with the results obtained, stating they arrived at the same answer as previously calculated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct approach to differentiation, with some methods being contested. No consensus is reached on the best method or the correctness of the derivatives calculated.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding the variable of differentiation and the application of differentiation rules, which may affect the outcomes. Some assumptions about the methods used are not explicitly stated.

autobot.d
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\frac{d}{d \sigma ^2} [log(\sigma ^ 2) - \frac{1}{\sigma ^ 2}]

I think the first part is

\frac{1}{\sigma ^ 2}

but pretty clueless after that. I also want to take the second derivative.
Any help or a reference would be great.
Thanks!
 
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substitute x = sigma^2 and differentiate as you normally would.
 
I think this is right.

\frac{d}{d \sigma ^2} [log(\sigma ^2) - \frac{1}{\sigma ^2}] = \frac{1}{\sigma ^2} + \frac{1}{\sigma ^4}

then for the second derivative

\frac{d}{d \sigma ^2} [\frac{1}{\sigma ^2} + \frac{1}{\sigma ^4}] = - \frac{1}{\sigma ^4} - \frac{2}{\sigma ^6}

Yay, nay? How does that look? I used this url as a reference
https://files.nyu.edu/mrg217/public/mle_introduction1.pdf

equations 51 and 60

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are mistaken. There are two ways to do the first function:
1) Use the "chain rule". Let u= x^2 so that ln(x^2)= ln(u). Then d ln(u)/du= 1/u and du/dx= 2x. d(ln(x^2)/dx= (d(ln(u))/du)(du/dx).

2) But it is much simpler to use the "laws of logarithms"- ln(x^2)= 2ln(x) so d(ln(x^2))/dx= 2 d(ln(x))/dx.

For the second, write 1/\sigma^2= \sigma^{-2} and use "d(x^n)/dx= nx^{n-1}".

I just noticed that this was "with respect to \sigma^2, NOT with respect to \sigma. That changes everything!

Let x= \sigma^2. Then your problem becomes
\frac{d}{dx}(ln(x)- x^{-2}.
Differentiate that and replace x with \sigma^2. You don't need to use the chain rule!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Awesome, I end up with the same answer as before. Thanks for the help.
 

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