Static + Hypersurface Orthogonality

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of static spacetimes in the context of general relativity, specifically examining the relationship between the absence of the g_{tx} component in the metric and the orthogonality of the Killing vector field to spacelike hypersurfaces. Participants explore the implications of these definitions and their consistency, raising questions about orthogonality, distance, and coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define static spacetimes as those with no g_{tx} component of the metric and question how this relates to the orthogonality of the Killing vector field.
  • Others argue that the definition of orthogonality involves the dot product being zero, which raises questions about the connection between orthogonality and length in the context of the metric.
  • A participant points out that while g_{tx} can be zero in some spacetimes, it does not necessarily imply that the spacetime is static, citing the Friedmann cosmology as an example.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the hypersurface orthogonality is a more coordinate-invariant definition of static spacetimes.
  • One participant introduces the concept of a time-like Killing field and its implications for the existence of a coordinate system where the metric components satisfy certain conditions.
  • There are discussions about notational issues regarding the expression of the metric and the vectors involved, with clarifications about the placement of indices in the metric tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of static spacetimes, with no consensus reached on the relationship between the absence of the g_{tx} component and the orthogonality of the Killing vector field. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential notational issues and clarify the relationship between metric components and vector indices, indicating that some assumptions about notation and definitions may need further examination.

latentcorpse
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Static spacetimes can be defined as having no g_{tx} component of the metric.

Alternatively we can say that they are foliated by a bunch of spacelike hypersurfaces to which the Killing vector field \frac{\partial}{\partial t} is orthogonal.

How are these two statements consistent?

g_{tx}=0 \Rightarrow g(\frac{\partial}{\partial t}, \frac{\partial}{\partial x})=0 but I always thought this meant there was no distance between timelike and spacelike vectors rather than a statement about them being orthogonal?

Can someone please clear this up for me.

Thanks.
 
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latentcorpse said:
Static spacetimes can be defined as having no g_{tx} component of the metric.

Alternatively we can say that they are foliated by a bunch of spacelike hypersurfaces to which the Killing vector field \frac{\partial}{\partial t} is orthogonal.

How are these two statements consistent?

g_{tx}=0 \Rightarrow g(\frac{\partial}{\partial t}, \frac{\partial}{\partial x})=0 but I always thought this meant there was no distance between timelike and spacelike vectors rather than a statement about them being orthogonal?

Can someone please clear this up for me.

Thanks.

√g(v1,v2) is the definition of dot product. Dot product=0 is the definition of orthogonality, in this case, 4-orthonality.
 
PAllen said:
√g(v1,v2) is the definition of dot product. Dot product=0 is the definition of orthogonality, in this case, 4-orthonality.

Why do you have a square root? This would correspond to "ds" rather than ds^2 and I though ds was an infinitesimal line element i.e. a measure of distance?

If the metric is just a statement about orthogonality, how is it connected to length? Or is it only a statement about orthogonality when it vanishes? I seem to be getting myself very confused about this haha
 
latentcorpse said:
Static spacetimes can be defined as having no g_{tx} component of the metric.
No, for example the dear old Friedmann cosmology has gtx = 0 but is not static. And contrariwise you can take a static spacetime like Schwarzschild and write it in a coordinate system for which gtx ≠ 0
 
Last edited:
Bill_K said:
No, for example the dear old Friedmann cosmology has gtx = 0 but is not static. And contrariwise you can take a static spacetime like Schwarzschild and write it in a coordinate system for which gtx ≠ 0

So the correct defn is the hypersurface stuff because it is coordinate invariant.

Is it correct to say that if it's static then it's always possible to find a coordinate system with g_{tx}=0?
 
Static means stationary and hypersurface orthogonal. In geometric terms this means there exists a time-like Killing field ##\xi## for the space-time and this Killing field is hypersurface orthogonal i.e. (locally) there exists scalar fields ##f,g## such that ##\xi^{\flat} = g df##. It is very easy to show that this implies there exists a coordinate system ##\{x^{\mu}\}## on the space-time such that ##\partial_t g_{\mu\nu} = 0## and ##g_{ti} = 0##. You will find this shown in e.g. Wald, see chapters 6 and 7.
 
there might be a notational problem in the above, g(V,V)=g^{ab}V_aV_b
 
macrobbair said:
g(V,V)=g^{ab}V_aV_b

You have the indexes backwards, at least if you are referring to the implicit statement in the OP that ##g_{tx} = g \left( \partial / \partial t, \partial / \partial x \right)##. That translates to ##g \left( V, V \right) = g_{ab} V^a V^b##, with the metric indexes lower and the vector indexes upper. Also, the two vectors aren't the same, so you should really be writing ##g \left( V, W \right) = g_{ab} V^a W^b##.

Then, if ##V## and ##W## are coordinate basis vectors, as ##\partial / \partial t## and ##\partial / \partial x## are, then the components ##V^a## and ##W^b## are either 1 or 0, depending on which basis vector we are looking at. Thus, ##\partial / \partial t = (1, 0, 0, 0)## and ##\partial / \partial x = (0, 1, 0, 0)##, so the formula reduces to ##g \left( \partial / \partial t, \partial / \partial x \right) = g_{ab} \left( \partial / \partial t \right)^a \left( \partial / \partial x \right)^b = g_{tx}##, as the OP wrote.
 

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