Step in fourier transform derivation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Fourier transform from the Fourier series, specifically focusing on the transition as the period approaches infinity. Participants examine the mathematical steps involved, particularly the appearance of a factor of 1/4 and the implications of changing the limits of integration.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the transition from the Fourier series to the Fourier transform, noting the change in limits of integration and questioning the emergence of the factor of 1/4.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the integrals in the second equation extend from -∞ to ∞, while the first extends from 0 to ∞, leading to a relationship between the two integrals due to symmetry.
  • A different participant expresses concern about the origin of the factor \(\frac{2}{\pi}\) in the integral, suggesting that it appears infinite and seeking clarification on its derivation.
  • One participant references Morse and Feshbach's "Methods of Theoretical Physics" as a source for understanding the derivation, indicating that the transition involves a substitution and a limit process.
  • Another participant corrects an earlier mistake in the formulas presented, but asserts that it should not affect the overall understanding of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the factor of 1/4 and the implications of the limits of integration. There is no consensus on the clarity of the derivation or the origin of certain factors.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the functions involved in the Fourier transform are not necessarily periodic, which may affect the interpretation of the integrals. There is also mention of a potential misunderstanding regarding the nature of the integrals being infinite versus finite.

Nick R
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Looking at how the Fourier transform comes about from the Fourier series when the period goes to infinity, they make the following step

[tex]h \left( x \right) = \frac{2}{\pi}\int^{\infty}_{0} \left( dk \right) \left[ \int^{\infty}_{0} h \left( \varsigma \right) sin \left( k \varsigma \right) sin \left( x \varsigma \right) d\varsigma \right][/tex]

and the limits of integration can be changed to

[tex]h \left( x \right) = \frac{1}{2 \pi}\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} \left( dk \right) \left[ \int^{\infty}_{-\infty} h \left( \varsigma \right) sin \left( k \varsigma \right) sin \left( x \varsigma \right) d\varsigma \right][/tex]

I'm trying to understand why this factor of 1/4 arises...

My understand is this
- in the first case, one integral gives us a Fourier coefficient [tex]A_{k}[/tex] the other integration is effectively doing this; [tex]\sum^{\infty}_{k=0} A_{k} sin \left( kx \right)[/tex]

- in the second case, one integral gives [tex]2 A_{k}[/tex], because it integrates across 2 periods, but it can't matter which period you integrate across to find the Fourier coefficient. The other integral is effectively [tex]2 \sum^{\infty}_{k=0} A_{k} sin \left( kx \right)[/tex] since it is summing over 2 periods instead of 1.

Is this a correct way of looking at it? I'm more confident I know what's going on after writing this post and having to articulate it...
 
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Nick R said:
Looking at how the Fourier transform comes about from the Fourier series when the period goes to infinity, they make the following step

[tex]h \left( x \right) = \frac{2}{\pi}\int^{\infty}_{0} \left( dk \right) \left[ \int^{\infty}_{0} h \left( \varsigma \right) sin \left( k \varsigma \right) sin \left( x \varsigma \right) d\varsigma \right][/tex]

and the limits of integration can be changed to

[tex]h \left( x \right) = \frac{1}{2 \pi}\int^{\infty}_{-\infty} \left( dk \right) \left[ \int^{\infty}_{-\infty} h \left( \varsigma \right) sin \left( k \varsigma \right) sin \left( x \varsigma \right) d\varsigma \right][/tex]

I'm trying to understand why this factor of 1/4 arises...

My understand is this
- in the first case, one integral gives us a Fourier coefficient [tex]A_{k}[/tex] the other integration is effectively doing this; [tex]\sum^{\infty}_{k=0} A_{k} sin \left( kx \right)[/tex]

- in the second case, one integral gives [tex]2 A_{k}[/tex], because it integrates across 2 periods, but it can't matter which period you integrate across to find the Fourier coefficient. The other integral is effectively [tex]2 \sum^{\infty}_{k=0} A_{k} sin \left( kx \right)[/tex] since it is summing over 2 periods instead of 1.

Is this a correct way of looking at it? I'm more confident I know what's going on after writing this post and having to articulate it...
The simplest way to see it is to note that in the first equation you cite, the integrals are both going form 0 to [itex]\infty[/itex] while in the second equation, they are going from [itex]-\infty[/itex] to [itex]\infty[/itex].
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^\infty} f(x)dx= \int_{-\infty}^0 f(x)dx= \int_0^\infty f(x)dx[/tex]

and, since both integrands are symmetric,
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^0 f(x)dx= \int_0^\infty f(x)dx[/tex]
which gives
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^\infty f(x)dx= 2\int_0^\infty f(x)dx[/tex]
or
[tex]\int_0^\infty f(x)dx= \frac{1}{2}\int_{-\infty}^\infty f(x) dx[/tex]
for each integral.

It has nothing to do with "periods" because, in the Fourier transform, the functions are not necessarily periodic.
 
The factor of 4 is easy enough to explain. I'm a little more concerned with where the :

[tex]\frac{2}{\pi} \int^{\infty}_{0} \left( dk \right)[/tex]

bit comes from. That's bit is clearly infinite.

BTW. I'm reasonably familiar with the development of the Fourier transform from the Fourier series but I haven't seen that method before. Do you have a either a link or the equations/development that precedes the lines shown above?
 
uart said:
The factor of 4 is easy enough to explain. I'm a little more concerned with where the :

[tex]\frac{2}{\pi} \int^{\infty}_{0} \left( dk \right)[/tex]

bit comes from. That's bit is clearly infinite.

BTW. I'm reasonably familiar with the development of the Fourier transform from the Fourier series but I haven't seen that method before. Do you have a either a link or the equations/development that precedes the lines shown above?

This all comes from Morse and Feshbach's "Methods of Theoretical Physics". They make a substitution, take the limit of the period going to infnity and the summation becomes an integral. Its the best description I've found but its taking me a while to assimulate it. Most explanations online are "heres the formula - magnificent!".

Also that whole thing could be rewritten [tex]\frac{2}{\pi} \int^{infty}_{0} \int^{infty}_{0} \left( \right) d\varsigma dk[/tex]

So its not infinity. Its just a double integral.

edit: also I made a mistake in those formulas in the first post but it shouldn't matter now.
 

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