Strange white flash in dark room.

[negitron]

It is known that "NDE's" are caused by lack of oxygen to the brain which cause hallucination. NDE's can be reliably reproduced in the laboratory using research centrifuges...the ones that they use to train astronauts and pilots.

They can be induced electrically and chemically, as well.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I hate it when someone tells a story that you KNOW isn't true, but for some reason it's not very socially acceptable to just say "you're lying, that never happened". You're supposed to actually entertain the bogus story as if you think it's possible.
"Oh really, then fireballs shot out of his eyes and he flew away? Everyone saw it? That's weird."

I had a friend who had no problem straight up telling somebody that the story they just told is a lie and it never happened. But it kinda made everyone uncomfortable when he did that. It caused a sort of negative vibe for a while everytime he did that.
He also had no problem turning to stranger and telling them to be quiet in a movie theater. It was pretty amazing.

 

[fleem]

That is NOT "Occam's razor," that is a "false dichotomy."

If there is a limit to the number of non-paradoxical rules in the universe, then there must be some mechanism imposing that limit. If there is no limit, then no mechanism need be explained. You are claiming there is an extra mechanism, yet offering no explanation. That is a case for Occam's razor.

 

[fleem]

They can be induced electrically and chemically, as well.

What's you point? That the fact that they can be induced proves there cannot be anything surprising about them?

 

[negitron]

What's you point? That the fact that they can be induced proves there cannot be anything surprising about them?

No. The point is the fact that they can be induced indicates they are most likely somatic in origin. And not, therefore, some mystical state of living after death.

Also look up Occam's Razor. You are incorrect as to its meaning.

 

[Pupil]

I'm not sure how to explain the phenomena you saw, but to answer the question about experiencing a bright flash when something startling happens: I've had that happen many, many times. It's usually with my eyes closed, but I could see it happening with open eyes.

The worst part about the phenomena you described is that it was extremely brief. Humans aren't good at witnessing the extremely brief. False impressions, biases, and those sorts of things that color the human perception make it hard to figure out long drawn out strange events, so short events are even harder to understand.

 

[fleem]

No. The point is the fact that they can be induced indicates they are most likely somatic in origin. And not, therefore, some mystical state of living after death.

So your reasoning is that one who understands how to suffocate a human (and maybe even a bit about cell oxygen deprivation), by definition also understands the NDE. And one who understands how to turn a key in an auto ignition switch, by default understands all the processes of the internal combustion engine. And the aborigine who understands how to strike flint together by default also understands the chemical processes in the fire.

Also look up Occam's Razor. You are incorrect as to its meaning.

"When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates"

Your theory: Some but not all non-paradoxical rules are true.

My theory: All non-paradoxical rules are true.

Take a close look at those two theories and tell me which one has fewer qualifications.

 

[negitron]

If all you're going to do is make strawman arguments, I'm done with you.

 

[robertm]

You will notice, I hope, the term is "Near Death Experience", not "Death Experience". This is of course, a vital distinction.

So your reasoning is that one who understands how to suffocate a human (and maybe even a bit about cell oxygen deprivation), by definition also understands the NDE. And one who understands how to turn a key in an auto ignition switch, by default understands all the processes of the internal combustion engine. And the aborigine who understands how to strike flint together by default also understands the chemical processes in the fire.

We have no clear understanding of the detailed real time neurochemistry of near death or drug induced psychosis', however we do understand the mechanisms by which the various somatic effects are brought to bear, and futhermore, we are capable of tracing a limited picture of the pharmacology of the nueroactive substances which are either present during such an event, are the trigger of it, or the subsequent metabolites. People say, for instance, with absolute confidence that they die when a small amount of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine is ingested, though they awake from a trance like state only a few minutes later.

Are you claiming that the stuff betwixt your ears is separate and different than all other stuff?

My theory: All non-paradoxical rules are true.

Your are assuming the existence of 'rules' whilst simultaneously not defining precisely what it is you mean when you say 'rules', though even if you managed that I doubt it would help your case.

 

[Chi Meson]

If there is a limit to the number of non-paradoxical rules in the universe, then there must be some mechanism imposing that limit. If there is no limit, then no mechanism need be explained. You are claiming there is an extra mechanism, yet offering no explanation. That is a case for Occam's razor.

Now you've gone all "strawman" on me, as well as putting words in my mouth.

 

[ideasrule]

Are NDE reports really that consistent? Some people report feeling wonderful; some report being tortured by beasts. Most people don't have any experiences to report besides the pain caused by whatever nearly killed them. Worse, NDEs depend on the religion; Christians usually see Jesus, Muslims see Allah, etc. That makes no sense whatsoever if all of them went into an afterlife!

As for out-of-body experiences, how many people have actually accurately described something in a room they visited in an out-of-body experience? Here's an interesting tale from New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article...ions-what-happens-after-you-die.html?page=2):

"And that is why there is, yes there is, a laptop computer duct-taped to the highest monitor in a cardiology operating room at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. The computer has been programmed to show, during the duration of each operation, one of 12 images, chosen at random and unknown to anyone, including the researchers. The laptop is flat open with the screen facing the ceiling, such that the only way a surgery patient might view the image is as a disembodied consciousness. As patients come out of anaesthesia, psychologist Bruce Greyson interviews them about what they remember of their time in the operating room. So far there have been no surprises."

 

[Husky]

This thread seem a little old but I have had similar experiences of white light flashes of a night in the bedroom, both my fiancee and myself have seen them at the same time and while each other has been asleep. The flash is very brief and only once. No definable shape or origin, rather a blanket of light that illuminates the room. A few facts ; It has happened in two separate houses that we have lived in, both isolated from outside lights, street, traffic, any obvious external lights sources.
The light source is within the room, on the occasions that we have seen it with our eyes open, it is clearly casting shadow on the inside of the blinds, and not emanating from outside.
We have systematically and logically eliminated what we consider possible sources, ie, mobile phones, electrical devices, alarm clocks, anything with a battery, even light bulbs at one stage.
Both houses share only one thing in common and that is proximity (within 5km) of an airport, regional and not busy at night. As the light is from within the room it seems irrelevant.
The flash is white, never accompanied by any audible sound, nor sense of electrical or static charge/discharge, nor any scent or smell. I don't find it disturbing or scary in any way, I do not associate it with any paranormal or supernatural activity and have had objective discussions with friends as to possible logical causes, but it still remains a mystery. . .

 

[hypatia]

Back on topic, humans are capable of producing a static charge, even if there is no foul weather.

 

[brainstorm]

Why would you ruin this magical occurrence by researching it on a physics forum? It was of course a physical manifestation of the strength of the love between you. At least, this is what you should tell your GF.

 

[mugaliens]

Light reflecting off the ceiling does seem like a plausible solution, at the time it REALLY seemed like a distinct, isolated point of light close to my head, but it was so brief that there may have been an element of illusion.

Since you were lying on your sides talking to one another, it could also have been a static discharge from the pillowcase just above your field of vision, which is only about 30 degrees above (closer to the headboard) from where you both were looking.

 

[FlexGunship]

That's an opinion, not a fact. Just keep that in mind.

If you can believe the universe is everything expanding into nothing, then I'm sure believing in ghosts isn't too far fetched.

The "universe expanding into nothing" is a theory based on repeatable observations. The theory has involved several peer reviews and the calculation has been independently verified.

While it is true that it is simply our best interpretation of the facts so far... it is not even close to the "ghost hypothesis" which has yielded no data of scientific credence.

Not comparable.

 

[FlexGunship]

But remember, If ever the laws of nature seem to have been suspended or bended for your viewing pleasure, ask your self which is more likely: that the normal workings of the universe have skipped a beat, or that you are under a misinterpretation.

That is a damned sexy idea.

I like it. Humans are the worst observers and recorders of data ever. I once convinced myself I saw an iridium flare where none should be. Obviously I was wrong.

Illusion 80%
Confusion 19%
Hallucination 0.99%
Hoax 0.01% (no reason to lie AND ask for help)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

That is a damned sexy idea.

I like it. Humans are the worst observers and recorders of data ever. I once convinced myself I saw an iridium flare where none should be. Obviously I was wrong.

Illusion 80%
Confusion 19%
Hallucination 0.99%
Hoax 0.01% (no reason to lie AND ask for help)

If you are going to cite numbers, then you need a published paper to support your claims.

Do you have any published evidence for this, or was this just a wild guess?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The "universe expanding into nothing" is a theory based on repeatable observations. The theory has involved several peer reviews and the calculation has been independently verified.

We cannot observe anything beyond the known universe and assume there is nothing beyond known space. We have no models for anything beyond known space except in the case of multiverse hypotheses.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This thread was a lost cause before it was moved to S&D and I never caught much of the inappropriate discussion, so I am locking it. The most recent posts have been moved to a new thread.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=323972